找工作面试
In this one-on-one episode of the Versioning Show, Tim and David discuss the ins and outs of job interviews in the web industry, including tips for preparing for and getting the most out of interviews, the pros and cons of recruiters, the merits of whiteboards, and curly questions you definitely don’t want to be asked.
在Versioning Show的这一一对一节目中，Tim和David讨论了网络行业工作面试的来龙去脉，包括准备和充分利用面试的技巧，招聘人员的利弊，白板的优点以及您绝对不想问的卷曲问题。
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在iTunes上订阅 | 订阅Stitcher | / p>
Tim’s article on How to Get a Web Development Job
蒂姆关于如何获得Web开发工作的文章
Glassdoor
玻璃门
Bubble sort algorithms
气泡排序算法
JavaScript with statements
with语句JavaScript
Say hello on Twitter: @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @versioningshow | @sitepointdotcom
在Twitter上问好： @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @versioningshow | @sitepointdotcom
I think what we can definitively say is, whether you come into contact with a company through an external recruiter, or an internal hiring manager, the advice that I would have to give is that it’s important that you get to speaking to a technical person as soon as possible.
我认为我们可以确切地说的是，无论您是通过外部招聘人员还是内部招聘经理与公司联系，我必须提供的建议是，与技术人员进行交流非常重要尽快。
you’re looking at putting out 80 to 100% of your working hours, of time — this time which is a resource that you cannot renew — and giving it to somebody else in exchange for a certain amount of money. And money is of course a very renewable resource.
您正在考虑将80％至100％的工作时间花在时间上，这是您无法更新的资源，并将其分配给其他人以换取一定的金钱。 金钱当然是一种非常可再生的资源。
You’re definitely on the losing side of a bargain like that, unless you go into it with the idea in mind that you need to evaluate whether this is the company that you want to work for, these are the technologies that you want to learn next, so that you can continue developing your career.
您肯定是在这样的讨价还价中处于失败的一面，除非您牢记要评估这是否是您想要工作的公司，否则就必须学习这些技术。接下来，以便您可以继续发展自己的职业。
interview the company before they interview you. Do your research, ask your questions, make sure you have the information you need, before they start to evaluate you technically as a candidate.
在采访您之前先采访公司。 做你的研究，问你的问题，确保你有你需要的信息后，便开始在技术上评价你作为候选人之前。
When I am interviewing a potential company to hire me, I find myself a lot more, lately, looking at their business model — if it seems to be something that is sustainable, and not based off of hype, and most importantly, internal feedback.
当我面试一家潜在公司以聘请我时，最近，我发现自己更多地关注他们的业务模式-如果这似乎是可持续的，而不是出于炒作，最重要的是基于内部反馈。
There are so many angles to approach a job offer, and you’ve really just got to dive in. Look at the business model, look at the funding information, look at the satisfaction of the employees. Ask to meet with people and keep asking to meet with people.
寻求工作机会有很多角度，而您实际上只是要投入工作。查看业务模型，查看资金信息，查看员工的满意度。 要求与人见面，并继续要求与人见面。
The company is investing a lot in you, if they have made the commitment to bring you in and do interviews. You have to respect that, and you have to realize that if you’ve gotten to the point where you’re getting those interviews, they’re serious about you, and they want you to succeed.
如果他们已承诺将您带入并进行采访，则该公司将为您投入大量资金。 您必须尊重这一点，并且必须意识到，如果您已经达到了接受这些采访的地步，那么他们就对您很认真，他们希望您成功。
So, when a company asks, Do this thing on a whiteboard, that is not an accurate challenge. That is not an accurate representation of a day-to-day job. That’s the thing that bothers me. At that point, that tells me that the company is looking mainly for me to be initiated into the group, not to be evaluated based on my technical skills for the job.
因此，当公司询问“在白板上执行此操作”时，这并不是一个准确的挑战。 那不是对日常工作的准确表示。 那就是困扰我的事情。 那时，这告诉我公司主要是在寻找我加入该团队，而不是根据我的工作技能进行评估。
you shouldn’t approach whiteboard coding challenges as if they’re expecting to be able to print what’s on the whiteboard into a computer screen and have it run immediately and perfectly. You should approach it as, This is going to be how I would solve the problem. Let’s figure out what the problem actually is, and let’s get to the details.
您不应应对白板编码挑战，就好像他们期望能够将白板上的内容打印到计算机屏幕上并使其立即且完美地运行一样。 您应该这样处理， 这将是我解决问题的方式。 让我们弄清楚问题到底出在哪里，然后让我们详细介绍。
When I interview candidates, I will find CodePen, I will find LinkedIn and GitHub and everything I can. If they give me their Twitter handle, I will see if they follow the same people that I follow in the industry. I will do those things, because I want to get a grasp at how in tune they are with the industry. I want to see code they’ve written and shared and contributed to.
当我面试候选人时，我会找到CodePen，LinkedIn和GitHub以及所有我能找到的东西。 如果他们给我他们的Twitter处理，我将看看他们是否跟随我在行业中追随的相同人员。 我会做这些事情，因为我想了解它们与行业的协调情况。 我想看看他们编写，共享和贡献的代码。
Hey! What’s up, everybody? This is M. David Green …
嘿! 大家好吗？ 这是大卫·格林(M. David Green)……
Tim: 蒂姆：… and this is Tim Evko …
……这是蒂姆·埃夫科……
David: 大卫：… and you’re listening to episode 13 of the Versioning Podcast.
…，您正在收听Versioning Podcast的第13集。
Tim: 蒂姆：This is a place where we get together to discuss the industry of web from development to design, with some of the people making it happen today and planning where it’s headed in the next version.
在这里，我们可以聚在一起讨论从开发到设计的Web行业，其中一些人今天将其实现，并计划下一个版本的发展方向。
David: 大卫：This episode, we’re going to be talking about how to get a job in web development, and in the web industry, and in the tech industry in general — some of the ins and outs, some of the dos and don'ts, and really whether a job is what you’re looking for anyway. So, let’s go ahead and get this version started.
在这一集中，我们将讨论如何在Web开发，Web行业以及整个技术行业找到一份工作-一些来龙去脉，一些需要注意的地方，以及实际上是否正在寻找工作。 因此，让我们继续进行此版本的启动。
So Tim, I understand you’ve actually written an article about this on SitePoint — about how people should look for jobs in web development. What were you focusing on with that?
因此，蒂姆，我知道您实际上已经在SitePoint上写了一篇有关此的文章 -有关人们应如何在Web开发中寻找工作的信息。 您当时专注于什么？
Tim: 蒂姆：The tech industry, as it stands today, is very new, and if you’re coming from a different career field, or if this is one of your first interviews in the tech setting, the way these kinds of interviews are traditionally held can be a bit surprising for people. Lots of people have written articles and tweeted and written blog posts about this process, and a lot of people sometimes find fault with it, which can be very valid. What I wanted to do is let people know what they can be expecting, and ways they can make the whole process better for them and better for the people looking to hire them.
今天的技术行业是一个非常新的行业，如果您来自不同的职业领域，或者这是您在技术领域的首次面试之一，则可以采用传统方式进行此类面试对人们来说有点惊讶。 关于此过程，很多人都写过文章，在推特上也写过博客文章，而且很多人有时会发现它的缺点，这可能是非常有效的。 我想做的是让人们知道他们的期望，以及使整个过程对他们自己更好，对希望雇用他们的人们更好的方法。
David: 大卫：I think one of the challenging things is that, in a lot of these companies, it’s really difficult to figure out who is actually in charge of hiring — because often the responsibility falls into the hands of engineers who don’t actually have a lot of the HR-type experience, with the advice of HR people who don’t know much about engineering in a lot of cases, and getting them working together in a way that makes sense. It can be very tricky.
我认为其中一项具有挑战性的事情是，在许多这类公司中，要弄清楚谁真正负责招聘是非常困难的–因为通常责任落在实际上没有很多人的工程师手中在很多情况下对工程学不太了解的HR人员的建议下，进行HR型体验，并以合理的方式使他们一起工作。 这可能非常棘手。
Tim: 蒂姆：That’s an excellent point, and that’s why I would say, one of the first things that I try to do when I find myself in this situation, is to — as soon as I can — figure out who I am talking to. You might not always have this luxury, but I prefer not to deal with external recruiters. That is a privilege to a lot of people, but what that allows me to do is connect with hiring managers who work internally, or CTOs who work for the company, and not this external third party. Because, a lot of times, what happens is, the third party has their own interests, which aren’t necessarily your interests.
这是一个很好的观点，这就是为什么我要说的是，当我发现自己处于这种情况时，我尝试做的第一件事就是-尽我所能-弄清楚我在跟谁说话。 您可能并不总是拥有这种奢侈，但我宁愿不与外部招聘人员打交道。 这对很多人来说是一种特权，但是我可以做的是与雇用内部工作的经理或为公司工作的CTO(而不是外部第三方)建立联系。 因为在很多情况下，发生的事情是第三方拥有自己的利益，而这不一定是您的利益。
Whereas, hiring managers in a company, or a CTO, or an engineer at a company who is looking to hire someone directly, are a little bit more concerned about the applicant. Whereas third parties like external recruiters, they get paid to do this. A lot of the times I will just, if I can, not at all deal with these third parties. Again, it is something that not everybody has the option to do.
鉴于公司中的经理或CTO或公司中的工程师想要直接雇用某人，他们对申请人的担心要多一些。 第三方像外部招聘人员一样，他们为此而领薪 。 如果可以的话，很多时候我只会与这些第三方打交道。 再次强调，并非所有人都有选择权。
Secondly, I will immediately try to identify if I am talking to a technical person or a non-technical person. When you find that out, as soon as possible, it does make the whole process a lot easier.
其次，我将立即尝试确定是与技术人员还是非技术人员交谈。 当您尽快找到答案时，确实会使整个过程变得容易得多。
David: 大卫：What I’ve noticed, I remember when I was starting off in my career in tech, the recruiters were incredibly helpful to me.
我所注意到的是，我记得当我刚开始从事科技行业时，招聘人员对我有极大的帮助。
I was somebody who repurposed myself as an engineer later in my career. I became an engineer after years of working in writing and marketing and PR and things like that. As a new engineer, I went directly to the recruiters, and I was very grateful to have their insight and their feedback — how I position myself in my resume, how to talk with technical hiring managers whom I had worked with only from an outsider’s perspective. It was very useful to me.
我是后来在职业生涯中重新定位为工程师的人。 经过多年的写作和市场营销以及PR和类似工作，我成为了一名工程师。 作为一名新工程师，我直接去了招聘人员，我非常感谢他们的见解和反馈-我如何在简历中定位自己，如何与我曾与外部工作过的技术招聘经理交谈。 对我来说非常有用。
As I have become more mature as an engineer, I’ve gotten to the point now where I think I’m in the same position that you are, where recruiters get in the way and interfere with the connection that you can make directly to the company. But when you’re starting out, and you’re looking for those first couple of jobs — particularly if you’re doing your first job transition from one company to the next — having that recruiter on your side and working with you can be very valuable.
随着我成为一名工程师的日趋成熟，我现在已经到了我认为与您处于同一位置的位置，招聘人员阻碍了您的工作，并干扰了您可以直接与公司建立联系的机会。公司。 但是，当您刚开始工作时，您正在寻找头几份工作，尤其是当您正在完成从一家公司到下一家公司的第一次工作过渡时，让招聘人员站在一边并与您合作可能会非常有价值。
Tim [4:11]: 提姆[4:11]：That is very true, and that is a good reminder for me as well. Because, now that you mention that, when I first went from my consulting, kind of just hitting up random companies on Craigslist, when I went from that to my first full-time company to do web development, there was a recruiter there who was an excellent help and went way further than he needed to, to help me get a job. So I should be a little bit more careful about casting aside all third-party recruiters. [Chuckles]
这是真的，对我也有很好的提醒。 因为，既然您提到，当我刚开始从事咨询工作时，就像在Craigslist上创办随机公司一样，当我从其咨询公司转到我的第一家专职公司进行网络开发时，那里有一个招聘人员一项出色的帮助，比他需要的帮助，帮助我找到了工作。 因此，在抛弃所有第三方招聘人员时，我应该多加注意。 [笑声]
Plenty of them can be extremely helpful in getting you a job — especially if you are new to this whole scene and this whole scenario. If that is you, if that does describe you, feel them out to see exactly how helpful they are and how much aid they can give you in this process. Because sometimes — I guess for both you and me, David — they can be extremely helpful. Very good point.
其中很多对您找到工作都非常有帮助-特别是如果您不熟悉整个场景和整个场景。 如果是的话，那么如果确实能形容您，请让他们感到高兴，以确切地了解他们在此过程中的帮助以及他们可以为您提供多少帮助。 因为有时候-我猜对我和大卫都一样-他们可能会非常有帮助。 很好。
David: 大卫：As you say, the importance of feeling them out is critical. When I started, I had had at least some work experience before, so I knew the importance of choosing a recruiter to work with who was compatible with me, and who understood what I was going through, and could relate to me. I talked to several, and it was a matter of kind of interviewing them, so that they could have the prize of being able to present me to a company and get 20% of my salary for the first year (or whatever it is that they end up getting).
正如您所说，感觉到它们的重要性至关重要。 当我开始工作时，我至少曾经有过一些工作经验，所以我知道选择一个招聘人员与与我相处，了解我所经历的并可能与我相关的人一起工作的重要性。 我与几个人进行了交谈，这是对他们进行面试的一种方式，这样他们就可以获得能够将我介绍给公司并在第一年获得我薪水20％的奖励(或者无论他们是什么，最终得到)。
Yes, absolutely. You need to consider this recruiter not just as, this person reaches out to you because they see your profile on LinkedIn and they know about this job, and suddenly they’re the only person you can talk to about this job. No — that is not the way that it is. They tell you about a job, or they tell you hints about a job, but you can usually use Google to find out the rest.
是的，一点没错。 您不仅需要考虑这位招聘人员，而且因为您在LinkedIn上看到了您的个人资料并且知道此职位，所以此人与您取得了联系，突然之间，他们是您可以与之交谈的唯一人员。 不，那不是事实。 他们告诉您有关工作的信息，或者告诉您有关工作的提示，但是您通常可以使用Google来找到其余的信息。
Tim: 蒂姆：Yes.
是。
David: 大卫：You work with the recruiter that you know and that you like, because that’s the person who’s supporting you, and that person knows that, with the way careers go these days, you’re probably going to be changing jobs again in another two or three years, at most — [chuckles] — and they’re going to get another commission out of you if they just support you and work with you.
您与认识并喜欢的招聘人员一起工作，因为那是支持您的人，并且该人知道，随着当今职业的发展，您可能会在另外两三个工作中再次换工作最多一年- (咯咯笑) -如果他们只是支持您并与您合作，他们将获得另外的佣金。
Tim: 蒂姆：Yeah. So, that being said, I think what we can definitively say is, whether you come into contact with a company through an external recruiter, or an internal hiring manager, the advice that I would have to give is that it’s important that you get to speaking to a technical person as soon as possible. Someone who you can ask questions.
是的 因此，话虽如此，我想我们可以说的绝对是，无论您是通过外部招聘人员还是内部招聘经理与公司联系，我都必须提供的建议是，重要的是尽快与技术人员交谈。 您可以问问题的人。
A lot of times, these companies will have these processes wherein you will speak to a recruiter, and then, immediately, you’ll be given a like technical phone screen or even come in for an interview. And you’ll go right from talking to a non-technical person to being evaluated by a technical person. That can sometimes mean that you don’t get to ask a lot of key and important questions before you go through the trouble of being screened technically.
很多时候，这些公司都会采用这些流程，在这些流程中，您会与招聘人员交谈，然后立即为您提供类似技术的电话屏幕，甚至是面试机会。 您将直接从与非技术人员交谈到被技术人员评估。 有时候这可能意味着您在经历技术筛选之前不会提出很多关键和重要的问题。
One of the things I try to do in this process is I try to talk to a technical person, either a lead developer or a CTO of the company, as soon as possible before I’m being evaluated for my technical proficiency.
在此过程中，我尝试做的一件事是， 在对我的技术熟练度进行评估之前 ，我尝试尽快与技术人员(无论是首席开发人员还是公司的CTO)进行交谈。
That gives me the ability ask questions like, Hey, what kind of software do you use? Do you practice good development principles? Is your team a diverse team? Are there people from different backgrounds and genders on your team, or is it going to be a sort of inside club? Do you practice good work hours? Things like that.
这使我能够提出类似的问题， 嘿，您使用哪种软件？ 您是否遵守良好的发展原则？ 您的团队是一支多元化的团队吗？ 您的团队中有不同背景和性别的人吗？或者这将是一种内部俱乐部？ 您是否练习良好的工作时间？ 像这样的东西。
I like to get those questions out before I am getting into code challenges and whiteboarding type of things, just so I can get a feel for the company before I have wasted — or potentially wasted — a lot of time in the whole interview process.
我喜欢在进行代码挑战和白板这类事情之前先解决这些问题，以便在浪费或可能浪费很多时间之前，让我对公司有所了解。
David [8:04]: 大卫[8:04]：I like the meta message behind what you’re talking about there, because what you’re talking about is the importance of you interviewing the company, not just the company interviewing you. I think a lot of candidates go into this with their hand out, desperately saying, Please give me a job. At least let me qualify for this job.
我喜欢您在这里谈论的内容背后的元消息，因为您在谈论的是您采访公司的重要性，而不仅仅是公司采访您的重要性。 我认为很多候选人都在伸出援手，拼命地说：“ 请给我一份工作。” 至少让我有资格胜任这份工作。
Tim: 蒂姆：Yeah.
是的
David: 大卫：But no, you’re absolutely putting yourself on the line there, and the thing to remember when you’re looking for a job, you’re looking at putting out 80 to 100% of your working hours, of time — this time which is a resource that you cannot renew — and giving it to somebody else in exchange for a certain amount of money. And money is of course a very renewable resource.
但是，不，您绝对是在那儿排队，寻找工作时要记住的事情是，您要花费80％至100％的工作时间，这一次是是您无法更新的资源，而是将其提供给其他人以换取一定金额的金钱。 金钱当然是一种非常可再生的资源。
You’re definitely on the losing side of a bargain like that, unless you go into it with the idea in mind that you need to evaluate whether this is the company that you want to work for, these are the technologies that you want to learn next, so that you can continue developing your career. You have to understand whether or not the CEO, the executives, whether the people who are in charge of this company, have a vision that you believe in and that you can support, such that you’re willing to say, Okay, I’m going to give you 100% of my time for the next two years in exchange for you paying enough money for … maybe my rent (if you’re in San Francisco, [chuckles] or a little more than that if you’re out of San Francisco).
您肯定是在这样的讨价还价中处于失败的一面，除非您牢记要评估这是否是您要工作的公司，否则就必须学习这些技术。接下来，以便您可以继续发展自己的职业。 您必须了解首席执行官，执行官，负责该公司的人员是否具有您所相信并可以支持的愿景，以便您愿意说， 好吧，我我会在接下来的两年中给您100％的时间，以换取您支付足够的钱……也许是我的房租 (如果您在旧金山，会很轻笑)，或者如果您不在那儿，旧金山)。
You have to remember, you are interviewing this company. They’re not just interviewing you.
您必须记住，您正在面试这家公司。 他们不只是在采访你。
Tim: 蒂姆：Yes. I think we could summarize point one as being: interview the company before they interview you. Do your research, ask your questions, make sure you have the information you need, before they start to evaluate you technically as a candidate. I think once you’re able to do that, once you give the people in charge of the hiring decisions the impression that, Hey, I’m evaluating you just as hard as you’re evaluating me, I think, and I hope, you start to get being taken a lot more seriously.
是。 我认为我们可以将要点概括为：在采访您之前先采访公司。 做你的研究，问你的问题，确保你有你需要的信息后，便开始在技术上评价你作为候选人之前。 我认为，一旦您能够做到这一点，就给您一个负责招聘决定的人的印象， 嘿，我对您的评价与对我的评价一样困难，我想，并且我希望，您开始变得更加认真。
So I think our first point can be: interview the company before they start interviewing you. Do you think that sounds good, David?
因此，我认为我们的第一点可以是：在他们开始采访您之前采访公司。 大卫，您觉得听起来不错吗？
David: 大卫：Yeah. And as you said, if you’re doing your homework that way, and really looking for your own best interests, you’re going to look much more appealing to these companies, because they’re going to see you as somebody who is taking this seriously and who’s done the research and understands what they are and who they are, and is looking at the serious issues. You’re ready to come in there and really do some work with them, you’re not just randomly looking for somebody to give you money.
是的 正如您所说，如果您以这种方式做家庭作业，并且真正在寻找自己的最大利益，那么您对这些公司的吸引力就会大大提高，因为它们会将您视为正在接受工作的人这是认真的，是谁进行的研究，并且了解他们是谁，是谁，并正在研究严重的问题。 您已经准备好进入那里，并与他们进行一些合作，您不仅在随机寻找某人给您赚钱。
Tim: 蒂姆：The more I look into companies — and I’ve done this process a couple of times (I am a little bit familiar with how it goes) — I’ve started to focus more on the business side of things. When I am interviewing a potential company to hire me, I find myself a lot more, lately, looking at their business model — if it seems to be something that is sustainable, and not based off of hype, and most importantly, internal feedback.
我对公司的关注程度越来越高-我已经完成了几次此过程(我对它的运行方式有点熟悉)-我开始更多地关注事物的业务方面。 当我面试一家潜在公司以聘请我时，最近，我发现自己更多地关注他们的业务模式-如果这似乎是可持续的，而不是出于炒作，最重要的是基于内部反馈。
One of the first things I’ll do is I’ll look up the company on Glassdoor and see what the reviews are like — seeing what people are saying about them in probably the most hostile of environments. Because in Glassdoor, companies can’t respond back to what the reviewers have to say. If you get a one star review, it’s going to stay there forever. I like to look at that, but I also like to look at, all right, what’s your business model? Are you a series A, meaning, did you just get your first round of funding and now you’re hiring up engineers? Are you profitable? Have you been in business for a while? Are you hiring because maybe somebody really important left, or because their salary was a little bit too much for you to pay this quarter? If I’m going to commit to working for you, I want to make sure that your business is a very good one.
我要做的第一件事就是我在Glassdoor上查找该公司，并查看其评论，看看人们在最恶劣的环境中对他们的评价。 因为在Glassdoor中，公司无法回复审稿人所说的话。 如果您获得一星评论，它将永远留在那里。 我喜欢看这个，但是我也喜欢看，您的商业模式是什么？ 您是A系列吗？意思是，您刚刚获得了第一轮资金，现在正在招聘工程师吗？ 你有盈利吗？ 你经营了一段时间吗？ 您是因为可能某个人真的很重要而离职，还是因为他们的薪水太高而无法在本季度支付？ 如果我要致力于为您工作，那么我想确保您的业务很好。
David [11:56]: 大卫[11:56]：That’s one of the most important reasons why a lot of the people who find the most job satisfaction when they change jobs are the ones who get jobs at companies where they have colleagues they’ve worked with before, and they’ve kept in touch with their networks. Those people can tell them, from an insider’s perspective, Oh, you’re moving into this division, you’re going to be reporting up to this director, and, These people have this kind of attitude and this is what they’re trying to work on. You can find that out from the people inside the company.
这就是最重要的原因之一，为什么许多在换工作时能获得最大工作满意度的人就是在曾经有过同事并且与他们保持联系的公司找到工作的人。他们的网络。 那些人可以从内部人的角度告诉他们， 哦，您正在进入这个部门，您将向该总监报告，并且， 这些人持这种态度，这就是他们正在尝试的方法。继续努力。 您可以从公司内部人员那里找到答案。
I’ve noticed that resources like Glassdoor, while it’s probably about 80% accurate, there’s this phenomenon — I don’t know if you’ve heard of it — it’s called Glassdoor turfing, where companies actually post reviews of their own company as if they were being posted by people who worked there from the outside. It’s pretty obvious when you’re working at the company if you see a review that was a Glassdoor turf review, but it’s not completely obvious to those of us on the outside doing the research. So it’s critically important to use your network and go look into companies where you know people who are working there. You can find out from the inside what the real scoop is, and what it’s really like to be there.
我注意到，诸如Glassdoor之类的资源虽然准确率大约为80％，但是却存在这种现象-我不知道您是否听说过-这就是所谓的Glassdoor turfing ，在这种情况下，公司实际上会对自己的公司发表评论，好像他们是由在外面工作的人张贴的。 当您在公司工作时，如果看到的评论是Glassdoor草皮评论，这是很明显的，但是对于我们外部进行研究的人来说，这并不完全明显。 因此，使用您的网络并了解您在那里工作的公司非常重要。 您可以从内部了解什么是真正的独家新闻，以及那里到底是什么样子。
Tim: 蒂姆：That is very helpful. That’s why participating in the community is such a beneficial thing — again, if you have the ability to do these things. I, for one, always find myself wishing I participated more in the community. Because what I do, I make contacts with people who work at a variety of interesting companies, and it has happened before where I will get a job offer and I will talk to someone and say, Hey, you’ve worked at this company. What can you tell me? What should I expect? How are the people here? And it’s so much more of an at ease feeling, because when you don’t have that, even if the interview goes perfectly and everybody seems very nice, you could land in a team and on day one comes a hostile manager that you’ve never met before. And that’s a scary situation.
那很有帮助。 这就是为什么参与社区如此有益的原因-同样，如果您有能力做到这些。 我总是发现自己希望自己能更多地参与社区活动。 因为我做的事，所以我与在各种有趣的公司工作的人进行了联系，这是在我获得工作机会之前发生的，我会与某人交谈，说， 嘿，您在这家公司工作。 你能告诉我什么？ 我应该期待什么？ 这里的人好吗？ 而且，这让您感到更加轻松自在，因为当您没有这种感觉时，即使面试进行得很顺利，而且每个人看起来都很友善，您也可以加入一个团队，并且有一天您会遇到一个敌对的经理以前从未见过。 那是一个可怕的情况。
David: 大卫：It is. Especially if you’re new to the work world, you may feel like that’s the only way that people work in this industry. I’ll tell you, there are engineers who are very happy with managers who are very supportive. There are engineers who are very unhappy with managers who don’t know how to protect them from the buffeting that goes on inside of companies.
它是。 尤其是如果您是职场新手，您可能会觉得这是人们从事该行业的唯一方式。 我会告诉你，有些工程师对经理的支持非常满意。 有些工程师对管理人员感到非常不满，他们不知道如何保护他们免受公司内部的冲击。
Ultimately the responsibility of the company is to make money, and if it is a publicly traded company, for the shareholders. If it’s not, for the investors. If you’re working for a bootstrap company, then you’ve got a CEO who’s desperate to make back the money that he put in from his own pocket, from the pockets of the angel investors. As I go through that now, I’m thinking, my God, it was so useful to me when I started with this that I had an MBA before I turned myself into an engineer.
归根结底，公司的责任是为股东赚钱，如果是公开上市公司，则是赚钱。 如果不是，对于投资者。 如果您在一家自助公司工作，那么您就有一个首席执行官，他迫切希望从自己的口袋里或天使投资人的口袋里还钱。 我现在想着，我的天哪，这对我来说非常有用，一开始我就拥有MBA学位，后来我变成了工程师。
Nowadays, just to get a job in these companies and evaluate the things that we were just talking about, you kind of have to have enough of a grounding in business — you know, what is a series A? What are all these funding models? How do you know about these things? You have to understand how business works before you try to position yourself in a job, in a company, because you don’t know what you’re giving up and what you’re exchanging it for.
如今，为了在这些公司中找到一份工作并评估我们刚才谈论的事情，您必须在业务上有足够的基础-您知道什么是A系列？ 所有这些筹资模式是什么？ 您如何知道这些事情？ 在尝试将自己定位为公司的工作之前，您必须了解业务的运作方式，因为您不知道自己在放弃什么，以及在做什么。
Tim: 蒂姆：Yeah, and I’ve learned a lot of these lessons the hard way. I did not know what a series A was not too long ago. I didn’t know that it would be an excellent idea to look at how many rounds of funding a certain company has taken in a certain amount of years. For example, looking at just what does this company do? Does this sound like a very trendy thing?
是的，我已经通过艰辛的方式学到了很多这样的课程。 我不知道不久前系列A是什么。 我不知道这是一个绝妙的主意，看看某家公司在一定年限内进行了几轮融资。 例如，看看这家公司做什么？ 这听起来很时髦吗？
For example (and again, if you work for this company I’m so sorry), but if you work for an ecommerce company that sells a mystery cat toy every month — if you get a job offer for that company, you have to think to yourself, Is this the kind of company that is going to take on a consistent amount of new users? Are the people in charge of the business promising me that that’s going to happen so I’ll accept their offer?
例如(同样，如果您在这家公司工作，我很抱歉)，但是如果您在一家每月销售神秘猫玩具的电子商务公司工作，如果您获得该公司的工作机会，则必须考虑一下对您自己来说， 这是一家将吸引大量新用户的公司吗？ 业务负责人是否向我保证这将会发生，以便我接受他们的提议？
There are so many angles to approach a job offer, and you’ve really just got to dive in. Look at the business model, look at the funding information, look at the satisfaction of the employees. Ask to meet with people and keep asking to meet with people.
寻求工作机会有很多角度，而您实际上只是要投入工作。查看业务模型，查看资金信息，查看员工的满意度。 要求与人见面，并继续要求与人见面。
Again, something I don’t think we’ve touched on so far, companies spend money to hire people. Even if you don’t use an external recruiter, you have to vet people technically, which means you take engineers away from engineering time, and you divert them to hiring. Now, in this industry, a lot of us get paid very well, which means that an engineer who spends an hour technically vetting a potential hire, could be as much as $100 to $200 lost from engineering time, so you’re spending possibly around $100 to $200 an hour just to interview someone. That means that it’s in the company’s best interest to get this process done as fast as possible — which means they’re not going to spend time, if they don’t have to, to introduce you to everyone in the company who you’re going to be interacting with on a day-to-day basis. That’s on you to go and find that information out.
同样，到目前为止，我认为我们还没有涉及到某些事情，公司花钱雇用员工。 即使您不使用外部招聘人员，也必须从技术上审查人员，这意味着您将工程师从工程时间中拿走了，并将他们转移到了招聘上。 现在，在这个行业中，我们很多人的薪水都很高，这意味着一个花一个小时在技术上审查潜在员工的工程师可能会从工程时间中损失多达$ 100到$ 200，因此您可能会花费大约每小时100到200美元，只用来采访某人。 这意味着尽快完成此过程符合公司的最大利益-这意味着他们不会花时间(如果不需要的话)向您介绍公司中的每个人每天都会与之互动。 那就是您要去找到的信息。
David [16:45]: 大卫[16:45]：I always make it a point, during the second round of interviews: I request specifically to meet with a wide range of people. For example, I was working as a front-end engineer earlier on in my career, and I would always make a point of saying, I need to meet with the head designer as part of the interview process.
在第二轮采访中，我总是指出这一点：我特别要求与广泛的人见面。 例如，我在职业生涯的早期就曾担任前端工程师，我总是要说一点，在面试过程中 ， 我需要与首席设计师见面。
They’d say, Well, you’re not booked to meet with the head designer. Why do you want to meet with the designer? I said, Because I’m working front end, and I need to know how designing and engineering are working together. You can make a strong case for that, but it takes time from the designer’s time.
他们会说， 嗯，您没有被预定与首席设计师见面。 您为什么要与设计师见面？ 我说， 因为我在前端工作 ， 所以我需要知道设计和工程如何协同工作。 您可以为此提供充分的理由，但是这需要花费设计师的时间。
The company is investing a lot in you, if they have made the commitment to bring you in and do interviews. You have to respect that, and you have to realize that if you’ve gotten to the point where you’re getting those interviews, they’re serious about you, and they want you to succeed. They want somebody to come in and help them with the problem that they’re trying to solve, and they’re desperately hoping that you’re that person who can come in and do that, and that they can just throw a little bit of money at you — a little bit form their perspective, hopefully a lot from your perspective — but throw some money at you and solve their problems. So ask them for what you want. Ask them to meet with the people that you want to meet with.
如果他们已承诺将您带入并进行采访，则该公司将为您投入大量资金。 您必须尊重这一点，并且必须意识到，如果您已经达到了接受这些采访的地步，那么他们就对您很认真，他们希望您成功。 他们希望有人进来并帮助他们解决他们要解决的问题，并且他们拼命希望您是那个可以进来并做到这一点的人，并且他们可以给他们一点点向您提供资金-从他们的观点出发，从您的观点来看希望很多-但向您投入一些资金并解决他们的问题。 所以问他们您想要什么。 请他们与您想见的人见面。
Tim: 蒂姆：I think a good second point would be: the interview process is an expensive one, and you can use that to your advantage.
我认为第二点很好：面试过程是一个昂贵的过程，您可以利用它来发挥自己的优势。
David: 大卫：That’s fair. That’s fair.
这还算公平。 这还算公平。
Tim: 蒂姆：We haven’t yet steeped into the technical side of things, which is the scary part.
我们还没有深入到技术方面，这是令人恐惧的部分。
David: 大卫：We’re going to talk whiteboard coding, aren’t we?
我们要谈谈白板编码，不是吗？
Tim: 蒂姆：No, actually, I am the most anti-whiteboarder you could probably find. I sometimes find it to be a red flag. Not always, but sometimes, find it to be a red flag, when a company says, We’re going to bring you on site for four hours. That’s not an amount of time, I’m just pulling out of the air. I’ve seen that on more than one occasion. And the whole time, it’s going to be a technical interview.
不，实际上，我是您可能找到的最反对白板的人。 我有时会发现它是一个危险信号。 并非总是如此，但有时会发现它是一个危险信号，当一家公司说：“ 我们将带您到现场四个小时。 那不是时间，我只是空想而已。 我已经不止一次看到了。 在整个过程中，这将是一次技术面试。
The reason that bothers me, is because at this point, I have sent you my GitHub profile, my CodePen profile, my portfolio site. At this point, I’ve sent you all of my information, and there is a ton of code there — which, by the way, if you’re interviewing for a job, make sure you have a lot of publicly visible code. If you can do that, that’s a great advantage. But if you’re going to ask me to come in for a technical interview that involves whiteboarding for four hours — or even half an hour — by the time I’ve sent you all this information, I’m a little bit worried that your processes might be a little bit archaic.
之所以困扰我，是因为此时，我已经向您发送了我的GitHub个人资料，我的CodePen个人资料，我的投资组合网站。 至此，我已将所有信息发送给您，并且那里有大量代码-顺便说一句，如果您正在面试工作，请确保您有很多公开可见的代码。 如果可以的话，那是一个很大的优势。 但是，如果您要我参加一次涉及白板的技术面试，时间为四个小时(甚至半小时)，等我将所有这些信息发送给您时，我有点担心您过程可能有点过时。
I much prefer when someone says, Hey, we’re going to send you a code challenge that you can complete on a computer with access to Google. Because that’s how modern web development happens. That’s how all web development happens. If you don’t do that, and you’re asking me to write some algorithm like bubble sort on a whiteboard — which I cannot do, mind you — I would sometimes think cool and intricate and complicated things on the web. I have never written a bubble sort algorithm, and I couldn’t tell you the first thing about how to start doing one. But, if you ask me to build something online, I will get it done. It might be difficult, but I’ll get it done.
我更喜欢有人说： 嘿，我们将向您发送代码挑战，您可以在可访问Google的计算机上完成该挑战。 因为这就是现代Web开发发生的方式。 这就是所有Web开发的过程。 如果您不这样做，并且您要我在白板上写一些像冒泡排序这样的算法(请注意，我无法做到)，有时我会认为网络上有酷而复杂的事情。 我从未写过冒泡排序算法，也无法告诉您有关如何开始做泡沫的第一件事。 但是，如果您要我在线构建某些内容，我会完成的。 可能很难，但我会解决的。
So, when a company asks, Do this thing on a whiteboard, that is not an accurate challenge. That is not an accurate representation of a day-to-day job. That’s the thing that bothers me. At that point, that tells me that the company is looking mainly for me to be initiated into the group, not to be evaluated based on my technical skills for the job. When the company does one of these initiation processes, it sort of tells me that there is a lack of real competency, a lack of, We’re really interested of how good you are at solving the problems we’re going to pay you to solve, and a lot more of We all did it this way, and now you have to.
因此，当公司询问“在白板上执行此操作”时，这并不是一个准确的挑战。 那不是对日常工作的准确表示。 那就是困扰我的事情。 那时，这告诉我公司主要是在寻找我加入该团队，而不是根据我的工作技能进行评估。 当公司执行上述启动流程之一时，它告诉我，您缺乏真正的能力，也没有。 我们真的很感兴趣您在解决问题方面的能力，我们将向您支付解决，还有更多我们都以这种方式做到了，现在您必须这样做。
David [20:22]: 大卫[20:22]：Wow, this is interesting, because my inclination, after hearing you talk about it this way, is almost to play devil’s advocate — and I am not a big whiteboard coding fan. I think that it’s one of the worst ways of evaluating an engineer.
哇，这很有趣，因为在听完您这样说后，我的想法几乎是扮演恶魔的拥护者，而且我不是白板编码的忠实拥护者。 我认为这是评估工程师最糟糕的方法之一。
Tim: 蒂姆：Yeah.
是的
David: 大卫：That said, I’ve been at companies where there was a desperate need to bring in people, and not enough resources to put together something like a coding challenge and to evaluate coding challenges. The offers that the companies were making to the employees — that were perspective employees — just weren’t compelling enough to get the qualified candidates to take a coding challenge. We would send out coding challenges to people, and they would say, You want me to spend four hours of my time writing code for you that you’re going to use and you’re not even going to pay me for it? And, you know, all of these things.
就是说，我去过的公司迫切需要人才，而没有足够的资源来组织编码挑战和评估编码挑战。 公司向员工(即透视型员工)提供的报价不足以吸引合格的应聘者接受编码挑战。 我们会向人们发出编码挑战，他们会说， 您希望我花我四个小时的时间为您编写将要使用的代码，而您甚至不为此付出代价吗？ 而且，所有这些事情。
Tim: 蒂姆：Yeah.
是的
David: 大卫：It gets complicated. On the other hand, the whiteboard coding challenges, if they’re properly managed, can be an effective way of evaluating an engineer’s skills in terms of how they interact with the requirements and move forward with getting to a solution. I’m thinking about situations where the whiteboard challenge is done in an interactive way, almost like a programming situation, where there’s somebody who has requirements and they’re standing with you, and while you’re working through the problems, you’re able to ask them for questions and you’re able to demonstrate your understanding of the domain that the problem is in, and go back and forth and almost jointly solve the problem.
它变得复杂。 另一方面，如果对白板编码挑战进行了适当的管理，则可以作为评估工程师技能与需求的交互方式以及前进到解决方案的有效途径。 我正在考虑以交互方式完成白板挑战的情况，就像编程情况一样，有人在其中有要求，他们站在您的身边，而当您解决问题时，您正在能够向他们提出问题，并且能够证明您对问题所在领域的了解，并且可以前后往返并几乎共同解决问题。
In my opinion, the best way of interviewing candidates is probably more of a pair programming situation, where you and the person being interviewed — or whoever this is — sit down with a problem that ideally neither one of you knows the complete solution for, or for which there could be multiple equally valid solutions, and jointly work together on a computer, in a pair programming situation, to come up with a solution and get that dialog going and demonstrate that both of you are able to work compatibly together, and that you have respect for each others' skills and abilities.
我认为，面试候选人的最佳方法可能更多是在一对编程的情况下，在这种情况下，您和被面试的人(或者无论是谁)坐下来遇到一个问题，理想情况下，你们俩都不知道完整的解决方案，或者为此，可能会有多个同等有效的解决方案，并在成对编程的情况下在计算机上共同工作，以提出一个解决方案，并使该对话框继续运行，并证明你们俩能够一起兼容工作，并且你们尊重彼此的技能和能力。
Tim: 蒂姆：I think that’s a very fair point. I would say my problem with whiteboarding, aside from the fact that I can’t do it, because I never write code on a whiteboard. I can draw a concepts and vague, crudely drawn outlines of distributive systems and things like that. Like when you’re in a meeting with the other engineers, and you’re trying to talk about how do we keep our user logged in for 90 days, but prompt to them for a log in again if they’re trying to edit their account information. I can draw those sorts of concepts on a board, but what I’m not going to do is write JavaScript on a whiteboard in a way that could solve an actual code problem.
我认为这是非常公平的一点。 除了无法做到这一点外，我还会说我的白板问题，因为我从来没有在白板上编写代码。 我可以为分布式系统和类似的东西画出一个概念和模糊，粗略的轮廓。 就像您在与其他工程师开会时一样，您正试图谈论我们如何使用户保持登录状态90天，但是如果他们正在尝试编辑他们的用户，则提示他们再次登录帐户信息。 我可以在板上画出这些概念，但是我不会做的是以一种可以解决实际代码问题的方式在白板上编写JavaScript。
I think that’s my biggest issue with whiteboard style interviews — is that if you want to test how good I am at solving a technical challenge, we’re going to need a computer in here, because that’s where the code goes.
我认为这是白板式采访中我最大的问题-如果您想测试我在解决技术挑战方面的表现如何，我们将需要一台计算机，因为这就是代码的去向。
David: 大卫：Absolutely. A computer is a necessary component, and I’ve seen companies that go the full range to Here’s a computer, here’s access to the internet, here’s Google, here’s four hours, here’s the challenge. You’re on site. Work on this, and then we’ll discuss it afterwards. That’s one approach, and I personally favor more of the interactive approach where there’s a computer, there are two people and they’re working together and they’re trying to solve a problem.
绝对。 电脑是必不可少的组件，而我见过的公司涉足范围广泛， 这是一台电脑，这是互联网的访问，这是Google，这是四个小时，这是挑战。 您在现场。 对此进行处理，然后再进行讨论。 那是一种方法，我个人更喜欢交互式方法，即有一台计算机，有两个人，他们在一起工作，他们正在尝试解决问题。
Even if you’re presented with a situation — and you will be: if you’re out there interviewing for jobs, you’re going to be presented with a situation where there’s a whiteboard — you need to take control of that and make it clear that what you’re going to write on that whiteboard is likely going to be pseudo code.
即使您处在一种情况下-而且您将是：如果您在那里面试工作，您将面临一个有白板的情况-您需要控制住并做到这一点清楚您要在白板上编写的内容很可能是伪代码。
Tim: 蒂姆：Yes.
是。
David [23:50]: 大卫[23:50]：You’re going to need to frame the problem properly, and you’re going to need to ask for test cases, and ask for all of the requirements, and usually problems are going to be presented to you in such a way that they could be solved in multiple different ways. And you have the opportunity with a person in the room with you, while you’re whiteboard coding, to do some back and forth.
您将需要正确地解决问题，并且将需要测试案例，并要求所有需求，通常情况下，问题将以能够解决问题的方式呈现给您。有多种解决方法。 当您进行白板编码时，您有机会与一个人一起在房间里来回做一些事情。
What they’re really evaluating you on is not whether or not you put a semicolon at the end of every line on the JavaScript on the screen. What they’re really evaluating you on is your intellect, and your ability to reason within the domain of the problem. So you shouldn’t approach whiteboard coding challenges as if they’re expecting to be able to print what’s on the whiteboard into a computer screen and have it run immediately and perfectly. You should approach it as, This is going to be how I would solve the problem. Let’s figure out what the problem actually is, and let’s get to the details. It’s much less intimidating if you look at the whiteboard as what you were talking about — as a place to work out concepts, rather than as a place to write code.
他们真正在评估您的不是您是否在屏幕上JavaScript的每一行的末尾添加了分号。 他们真正在评估您的是您的才智，以及您在问题范围内进行推理的能力。 因此，您不应像对待白板编码挑战那样对待他们，因为他们期望能够将白板上的内容打印到计算机屏幕上并使其立即，完美地运行。 您应该这样处理， 这将是我解决问题的方式。 让我们弄清楚问题到底出在哪里，然后让我们详细介绍。 如果您将白板看作是您所谈论的内容，那么它就没有那么吓人了，它是制定概念的地方，而不是编写代码的地方。
Tim: 蒂姆：Yes, and I would say my favorite way to do an interview is to have someone complete a code challenge, and then to review that challenge when they come in. That’s my favorite way. That’s personally how I find I evaluate candidates best if I have to. Most of the time when I interview candidates, if I can get away with it, I don’t have them write a single line of code. This might be a little bit confrontational, this might be a little bit edgy, but here’s the deal, David. Let’s get real here.
是的，我想说，我最喜欢的面试方式是让某人完成一个代码挑战，然后在他们遇到时复查该挑战。这是我最喜欢的方式。 我个人认为，如果需要，我会最好地评估候选人。 在大多数时候，我面试求职者时，如果我能逃脱它，我就不会让他们写一行代码。 这可能有点对抗性，可能有点前卫，但这是达成的协议，David。 让我们在这里变得真实。
David: 大卫：Bring it on, man!
来吧，老兄！
Tim: 蒂姆：This is unique. This could be unique to my situation. When I interview candidates, I will find CodePen, I will find LinkedIn and GitHub and everything I can. If they give me their Twitter handle, I will see if they follow the same people that I follow in the industry. I will do those things, because I want to get a grasp at how in tune they are with the industry. I want to see code they’ve written and shared and contributed to. If all goes according to plan, by the time they come in in person, I know they’re capable of writing the type of code that I look for. If I don’t, that’s when the coding challenge goes out.
这是独一无二的。 这可能是我的情况所独有的。 当我面试候选人时，我会找到CodePen，LinkedIn和GitHub以及所有我能找到的东西。 如果他们给我他们的Twitter处理，我将看看他们是否跟随我在行业中追随的相同人员。 我会做这些事情，因为我想了解它们与行业的协调情况。 我想看看他们编写，共享和贡献的代码。 如果一切都按计划进行，那么当他们亲自出席时，我知道他们有能力编写我所寻找的代码类型。 如果我不这样做，那就是编码挑战的时机。
When they come in, we sit down and we have a conversation. What do you like about front-end development? What do you prioritize, performance or business goals? When you’re writing JavaScript, what’s your favorite way to organize the code? Talk to me about a challenging problem you’ve had to solve with CSS recently.
当他们进来时，我们坐下来进行对话。 您喜欢前端开发什么？ 您优先考虑什么，绩效或业务目标？ 在编写JavaScript时，最喜欢的组织代码的方式是什么？ 与我谈谈您最近必须使用CSS解决的一个难题。
David: 大卫：One of my favorite questions to ask a candidate along those lines is, What’s the thing, when you inherit a codebase, that you’re most afraid of seeing in there?
我最喜欢问候选人的一个问题是，当您继承一个代码库时，最害怕在那里看到的是什么？
Tim: 蒂姆：Oooh … a with statement? [Laughter]
哦... with语句？ [笑声]
That’s probably the nerdiest joke you’ll hear on this show, ever. That being said, I like to have this type of conversation with the candidate, because when I have this conversation, I can get a feel for, all right, when we’re talking about performance, you’ve mentioned HTTP2, or you’ve mentioned something like using transforms for animations in CSS. I look for those sorts of things that the candidate mentions, and if that happens — and this method has not failed me yet, and maybe I’ve spoken too soon and it’s going to come back to bite me — but if that happens, I have gotten through interviews and hired people without having them write out a line of code for me, because I’ve already done my research, and I’ve had that conversation where I hear them talk about development, the things they like, mentioning some technical things. So far that’s done the job for me.
这可能是您在这场演出中永远听到的最讨厌的笑话。 That being said, I like to have this type of conversation with the candidate, because when I have this conversation, I can get a feel for, all right, when we're talking about performance, you've mentioned HTTP2, or you've mentioned something like using transforms for animations in CSS. I look for those sorts of things that the candidate mentions, and if that happens — and this method has not failed me yet, and maybe I've spoken too soon and it's going to come back to bite me — but if that happens, I have gotten through interviews and hired people without having them write out a line of code for me, because I've already done my research, and I've had that conversation where I hear them talk about development, the things they like, mentioning some technical things. So far that's done the job for me.
What I will say (a note to people who work in the hiring process): if at any point you find yourself asking a candidate to answer a question that you yourself do not know the answer to, you should leave the room. That’s probably as confrontational as I’m going to be today.
What I will say (a note to people who work in the hiring process): if at any point you find yourself asking a candidate to answer a question that you yourself do not know the answer to, you should leave the room. That's probably as confrontational as I'm going to be today.
David: 大卫：I’m going to confront you on that one, because I think that one of the most valuable things to do in an interview is to ask somebody a question you don’t know the answer to and work it out together.
I'm going to confront you on that one, because I think that one of the most valuable things to do in an interview is to ask somebody a question you don't know the answer to and work it out together.
Tim [27:50]: Tim [27:50]:Okay, so maybe I should have clarified here. That’s fair. You called me out. All right. Good. If I come into a room with a list of questions and one of these questions is, How do you reverse bytes in JavaScript? I just barely know the answer to that question. I think it’s with the tilde operator or something like that, but I could not tell you the answer to that question definitively.
Okay, so maybe I should have clarified here. That's fair. You called me out. 行。 好。 If I come into a room with a list of questions and one of these questions is, How do you reverse bytes in JavaScript? I just barely know the answer to that question. I think it's with the tilde operator or something like that, but I could not tell you the answer to that question definitively.
David: 大卫：JavaScript engines are never optimized for bytes.
JavaScript engines are never optimized for bytes.
Tim: 蒂姆：There you go. So I barely even know what I’m talking about. If I’m asking that question to a candidate, there is one of reasons. I’m trying to figure out that question and I want to see how they approach this problem, how they think about it. Maybe we’ll come up with the answer together, or I’m trying to trick them, or I’m trying to see how smart are you. You have to be super smart, because I don’t want to work with someone who’s dumb.
妳去 So I barely even know what I'm talking about. If I'm asking that question to a candidate, there is one of reasons. I'm trying to figure out that question and I want to see how they approach this problem, how they think about it. Maybe we'll come up with the answer together, or I'm trying to trick them, or I'm trying to see how smart are you. You have to be super smart, because I don't want to work with someone who's dumb.
David: 大卫：That’s fair. I know where you’re going with this.
That's fair. I know where you're going with this.
Tim: 蒂姆：Yeah.
是的
David: 大卫：I called you out, but I was kind of going backwards on you with this, because I’ve been in situations where I was interviewing for a front-end job at a company that did not have a front-end engineer to evaluate my skills. And they were asking me some very fundamental things about how HTML is structured, and they’d gotten all of the answers to the questions they were asking me from some Wikipedia page that they had found. This was long enough ago that the answers were out of date with what was contemporary HTML. I gave contemporary HTML answers and they said, Well no, that’s not exactly what our response says. It says …
I called you out, but I was kind of going backwards on you with this, because I've been in situations where I was interviewing for a front-end job at a company that did not have a front-end engineer to evaluate my skills. And they were asking me some very fundamental things about how HTML is structured, and they'd gotten all of the answers to the questions they were asking me from some Wikipedia page that they had found. This was long enough ago that the answers were out of date with what was contemporary HTML. I gave contemporary HTML answers and they said, Well no, that's not exactly what our response says. It says …
You know, it was all about the fact that the person who was interviewing me actually did not know the skill set that I was being interviewed for.
You know, it was all about the fact that the person who was interviewing me actually did not know the skill set that I was being interviewed for.
You’re absolutely right. If you need to interview somebody for a skill set, you need to at least have understanding — you need to have somebody on staff who is capable of evaluating that skill set. If you’re bringing in somebody and you don’t, that’s a challenge.
你是绝对正确的。 If you need to interview somebody for a skill set, you need to at least have understanding — you need to have somebody on staff who is capable of evaluating that skill set. If you're bringing in somebody and you don't, that's a challenge.
Tim: 蒂姆：Yeah. And it’s a tough situation, and sometimes that will have to happen. If you’re hiring your first front-end hire, what do you do? That’s a tough situation, but I have been in interviews where the interviewer was what I could describe to be as hostile. Trying to trick you, or not really liking your vibe, or you know, just — You have to be this smart.
是的 And it's a tough situation, and sometimes that will have to happen. If you're hiring your first front-end hire, what do you do? That's a tough situation, but I have been in interviews where the interviewer was what I could describe to be as hostile. Trying to trick you, or not really liking your vibe, or you know, just — You have to be this smart.
In those cases, if you find yourself to be in an interview, or if I were ever again to find myself in that type of interview, I’d probably just get up and walk out. Not all companies are perfect with great culture and nice people, and those interviews can be jarring and discouraging and upsetting, and sometimes if you find yourself in that situation, it’s really just not worth it to continue in such a negative situation.
In those cases, if you find yourself to be in an interview, or if I were ever again to find myself in that type of interview, I'd probably just get up and walk out. Not all companies are perfect with great culture and nice people, and those interviews can be jarring and discouraging and upsetting, and sometimes if you find yourself in that situation, it's really just not worth it to continue in such a negative situation.
David: 大卫：That’s true. One of the issues of course is, we’re engineers. Engineers are focused on working with the machine, not necessarily working with people, and may not be trained in how to interview. They may not be trained in interpersonal skills. Frequently I’ve come in situations where the companies just didn’t have the budget, the resources, or the talent on hand to provide interviewers who were comfortable working with candidates and helping them through and evaluating them in a way that was not off-putting.
确实如此。 One of the issues of course is, we're engineers. Engineers are focused on working with the machine, not necessarily working with people, and may not be trained in how to interview. They may not be trained in interpersonal skills. Frequently I've come in situations where the companies just didn't have the budget, the resources, or the talent on hand to provide interviewers who were comfortable working with candidates and helping them through and evaluating them in a way that was not off-putting.
Tim: 蒂姆：Yeah.
是的
David: 大卫：Sometimes the most skilled, the most qualified candidate, the most qualified person inside the company to do the evaluation, may not be the most qualified person to talk to human beings.
Sometimes the most skilled, the most qualified candidate, the most qualified person inside the company to do the evaluation, may not be the most qualified person to talk to human beings.
Tim: 蒂姆：Yes. Here we’re going to go out and line up point number three: Every interview — and I’m going to stand by this statement — every interview should feel comfortable and friendly. Always. No matter what.
是。 Here we're going to go out and line up point number three: Every interview — and I'm going to stand by this statement — every interview should feel comfortable and friendly. 总是。 No matter what.
David: 大卫：Yes. That’s the goal.
是。 这就是目标。
Tim: 蒂姆：Every single interview should be accommodating, comfortable, friendly, nice and should never leave you feeling not worthy or bad about yourself or embarrassed, ever.
Every single interview should be accommodating, comfortable, friendly, nice and should never leave you feeling not worthy or bad about yourself or embarrassed, ever.
I have been on the wrong side of those interviews. I have been in interviews where it was very obviously ended early because the interviewer did not find my skills to be to their pinnacle of standards. It was just an awkward and terrible time. It’s never ever something I want to go through ever again. It was awful. I promised myself from then on, if I ever interview anybody ever technically, we’re going to be friends by the time we’re done.
I have been on the wrong side of those interviews. I have been in interviews where it was very obviously ended early because the interviewer did not find my skills to be to their pinnacle of standards. It was just an awkward and terrible time. It's never ever something I want to go through ever again. 太可怕了 I promised myself from then on, if I ever interview anybody ever technically, we're going to be friends by the time we're done.
David [31:54]: David [31:54]:We’ve gone over a bunch of stuff. Let’s see. We’ve got three main points. Can you summarize those points since you were the one writing them down as we went.
We've gone over a bunch of stuff. 让我们来看看。 We've got three main points. Can you summarize those points since you were the one writing them down as we went.
Tim: 蒂姆：Of course. Let me pull up my notebook. Do we have paper sound effects?
当然。 Let me pull up my notebook. Do we have paper sound effects?
[Laughter]
[笑声]
Point one was: interview the company before they interview you — which means do your research, ask all of the questions, find out all the information you can, and generally just get all the information you want to have before the company starts to evaluate technically. That’s the goal, right? You don’t always have the option to get all of that information, but if you can, really try to interview the company first. Does that sound like a fair point one?
Point one was: interview the company before they interview you — which means do your research, ask all of the questions, find out all the information you can, and generally just get all the information you want to have before the company starts to evaluate technically. That's the goal, right? You don't always have the option to get all of that information, but if you can, really try to interview the company first. Does that sound like a fair point one?
I think point number two was that the interview process is an expensive one, and you can use that to your advantage. Companies spend money interviewing you, and for example, if they put an offer out that is not satisfactory to you, kick it back. They’re not going to say, Forget it, we’re just going to start this whole long, grueling and financially draining process over again and bring someone all the way to this point. No. They will be very accommodating within reason, because it’s an expensive process for them, and you have every right to take advantage of that.
I think point number two was that the interview process is an expensive one, and you can use that to your advantage. Companies spend money interviewing you, and for example, if they put an offer out that is not satisfactory to you, kick it back. They're not going to say, Forget it, we're just going to start this whole long, grueling and financially draining process over again and bring someone all the way to this point. No. They will be very accommodating within reason, because it's an expensive process for them, and you have every right to take advantage of that.
Point number three was that the interview process is an excellent indicator of how good the company is and how good the people in the company are. Point number three is that the interview process should always feel accommodating, friendly, and helpful. Even if you find out mid-interview that maybe you’re not technically proficient enough for the job, which has happened to me so many times, or it’s not the company for you, or maybe this isn’t a role you’re very interested in, you should at the very least come away from the process having learned something, a valuable lesson, maybe something extra about code, maybe something you can do in the future to improve, but you should always feel like it was not a waste of your time, and like it was not a sort of dejecting and rejectful feeling sort of process.
Point number three was that the interview process is an excellent indicator of how good the company is and how good the people in the company are. Point number three is that the interview process should always feel accommodating, friendly, and helpful. Even if you find out mid-interview that maybe you're not technically proficient enough for the job, which has happened to me so many times, or it's not the company for you, or maybe this isn't a role you're very interested in, you should at the very least come away from the process having learned something, a valuable lesson, maybe something extra about code, maybe something you can do in the future to improve, but you should always feel like it was not a waste of your time, and like it was not a sort of dejecting and rejectful feeling sort of process.
David: 大卫：Coming away from an interview where it’s been demonstrated to you that you’re not technically up to the job that they’re hiring for, that gives you an opportunity not only to ask a lot of questions about the things that you could learn next — you’re now talking to people who know all these things and you don’t, so that’s a great opportunity to do that — but at almost every job interview that I’ve ever had, I’ve come away from it with at least one or two new LinkedIn connections from people that I’ve met during the interviews who were interesting. I didn’t necessarily take the job, but I wanted to stay in touch with these people. That’s giving the company back something that they didn’t have before, which is a connection to your network, which is another very valuable thing that you bring.
Coming away from an interview where it's been demonstrated to you that you're not technically up to the job that they're hiring for, that gives you an opportunity not only to ask a lot of questions about the things that you could learn next — you're now talking to people who know all these things and you don't, so that's a great opportunity to do that — but at almost every job interview that I've ever had, I've come away from it with at least one or two new LinkedIn connections from people that I've met during the interviews who were interesting. I didn't necessarily take the job, but I wanted to stay in touch with these people. That's giving the company back something that they didn't have before, which is a connection to your network, which is another very valuable thing that you bring.
Tim: 蒂姆：Yeah. Speaking of LinkedIn, I’m glad you brought that up. I’ll share this with everybody listening. One of the companies early on in my career that I interviewed for, that I turned out just not being technically proficient enough for by a long shot, was LinkedIn. I interviewed with LinkedIn for a front-end developer role. It was a video pair programming exercise, and I failed some of the more technical JavaScript questions, but it was the most friendly and accommodating and just generally nice interview that I have ever been on. The interviewer said, Listen, it turns out that you’re just not where we’re looking for you to be technically for this role, but please message me again in six months, and we’ll pick up right where we left off.
是的 Speaking of LinkedIn, I'm glad you brought that up. I'll share this with everybody listening. One of the companies early on in my career that I interviewed for, that I turned out just not being technically proficient enough for by a long shot, was LinkedIn. I interviewed with LinkedIn for a front-end developer role. It was a video pair programming exercise, and I failed some of the more technical JavaScript questions, but it was the most friendly and accommodating and just generally nice interview that I have ever been on. The interviewer said, Listen, it turns out that you're just not where we're looking for you to be technically for this role, but please message me again in six months, and we'll pick up right where we left off.
By the time the six months were over, I had found a different job and I was happy where I was, but I had never been so satisfied with an interview before. Why shouldn’t it always be that way?
By the time the six months were over, I had found a different job and I was happy where I was, but I had never been so satisfied with an interview before. Why shouldn't it always be that way?
David [35:45]: David [35:45]:Why shouldn’t it always be that way? It’s important to remember. You went into an interview for a job that, at the time, you weren’t qualified for, but because of the nature of the field that we’re in, qualification for a job can come in a few months of training on a specific framework or a specific language. You went in, and you were interviewed, and you were found lacking, and you survived! It didn’t kill you. It didn’t stop your prospects. It didn’t immediately send a red flag out to every hiring manager out there saying, Do not hire this person, he failed his interview at LinkedIn.
Why shouldn't it always be that way? It's important to remember. You went into an interview for a job that, at the time, you weren't qualified for, but because of the nature of the field that we're in, qualification for a job can come in a few months of training on a specific framework or a specific language. You went in, and you were interviewed, and you were found lacking, and you survived! It didn't kill you. It didn't stop your prospects. It didn't immediately send a red flag out to every hiring manager out there saying, Do not hire this person, he failed his interview at LinkedIn.
This is just something that you went through, and you moved to the next level. You moved to the next step, and now you’re continuing forward.
This is just something that you went through, and you moved to the next level. You moved to the next step, and now you're continuing forward.
Tim: 蒂姆：It motivated me, because you know what I did, I went on Google Calendar, I looked six months ahead. I made myself a little reminder, Call LinkedIn again. Every day for the next six months, you know what I did? I studied JavaScript. I made CodePen demos. I worked really hard at it and I looked at stuff that I wouldn’t otherwise looked at because maybe it was boring or really hard, but I was motivated to do this, because someone sat on the other side of a computer and said, Hey, you can do this. In six months we’re going to do this again, and you’re going to be great then. That was super helpful.
It motivated me, because you know what I did, I went on Google Calendar, I looked six months ahead. I made myself a little reminder, Call LinkedIn again. Every day for the next six months, you know what I did? I studied JavaScript. I made CodePen demos. I worked really hard at it and I looked at stuff that I wouldn't otherwise looked at because maybe it was boring or really hard, but I was motivated to do this, because someone sat on the other side of a computer and said, Hey, you can do this. In six months we're going to do this again, and you're going to be great then. That was super helpful.
David: 大卫：It indicates to you where you should be thinking. What direction to put your attention to. I remember an interview where I was introduced to my first recursion problem in the middle of an interview, and I didn’t know how to solve a recursion problem. I didn’t even know what kind of problem … I was doing this ridiculous, deeply nested … It was crap, I can tell you, but they explained to me at the interview, This is a recursion problem. You can tell because of this, this and this.
It indicates to you where you should be thinking. What direction to put your attention to. I remember an interview where I was introduced to my first recursion problem in the middle of an interview, and I didn't know how to solve a recursion problem. I didn't even know what kind of problem … I was doing this ridiculous, deeply nested … It was crap, I can tell you, but they explained to me at the interview, This is a recursion problem. You can tell because of this, this and this.
I went off, I studied it. I learned more about it. Now I’m working on a functional programming course in JavaScript for SitePoint around a lot of the topics that, if I hadn’t been introduced to it in that context, it wouldn’t have motivated me to go out and learn about it.
I went off, I studied it. I learned more about it. Now I'm working on a functional programming course in JavaScript for SitePoint around a lot of the topics that, if I hadn't been introduced to it in that context, it wouldn't have motivated me to go out and learn about it.
Tim: 蒂姆：Yeah, very true. We have our three points.
是的，非常正确。 We have our three points.
David: 大卫：I think those three points are good.
I think those three points are good.
Tim: 蒂姆：Are there any other points we want to line up?
Are there any other points we want to line up?
David: 大卫：I think the main point is: good luck, and remember how valuable your time is. Your time is something you can never get back, and you’re selling it to these companies very cheaply, considering what percentage of their money they’re giving to you, versus what percentage of your time you’re giving to them.
I think the main point is: good luck, and remember how valuable your time is. Your time is something you can never get back, and you're selling it to these companies very cheaply, considering what percentage of their money they're giving to you, versus what percentage of your time you're giving to them.
Tim: 蒂姆：Don’t undervalue your time or your salary.
Don't undervalue your time or your salary.
Thank you so much for listening, everybody. We always enjoy getting to talk technology with all of you.
Thank you so much for listening, everybody. 我们总是喜欢与大家交谈技术。
David: 大卫：We would also like to thank SitePoint.com, and our producers, Adam Roberts and Ophelie Lechat, with production help from Ralph Mason. Please feel free to send us your comments on Twitter — @versioningshow — and give us a rating on iTunes and let us know how we’re doing.
我们还要感谢SitePoint.com以及我们的制作人Adam Roberts和Ophelie Lechat，以及Ralph Mason的制作帮助。 Please feel free to send us your comments on Twitter — @versioningshow — and give us a rating on iTunes and let us know how we're doing.
Tim: 蒂姆：We’ll see you next time, and we hope you enjoyed this version.
下次见，我们希望您喜欢这个版本。
翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/versioning-show-episode-13-getting-a-web-development-job/
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