Episode 137 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week our regular interview host Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict) interviews Jan Lukacs (@jan_lukacs) the General Mananger of Paymo.
SitePoint Podcast的第137集现已发布！ 这一周我们的定期访谈主持人路易斯西莫努( @rssaddict )采访一月卢卡奇( @jan_lukacs )总Mananger Paymo 。
You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:
您可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：
SitePoint Podcast #137: Paymo with Jan Lukacs (MP3, 24:58, 24.0MB)
SitePoint播客＃137：使用Jan Lukacs的Paymo(MP3，24:58，24.0MB)
Louis and Jank discuss how the whole project came about, the pitfalls and experiences of changing from a client project based business to a cloud app service and how you can think about approaching the same move.
Louis和Jank讨论了整个项目是如何实现的，从基于客户端项目的业务过渡到云应用程序服务的陷阱和经验，以及如何考虑采取相同的措施。
Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/137.
浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/137中显示的参考链接的完整列表。
Louis: Hello and welcome to the SitePoint Podcast. This week on the show I’m glad to have with me for an interview Jan Lukacs who is the general manager of a company called Paymo which is sort of an online time tracking and invoicing service. Hi, Jan.
路易斯：您好，欢迎来到SitePoint播客。 在本周的演出中，我很高兴能与我面谈Jan Lukacs，他是一家名为Paymo的公司的总经理，这是一种在线时间跟踪和发票服务。 嗨一月
Jan: Hi Louis.
Jan：嗨，路易斯。
Louis: How are you going?
路易斯：你过得怎么样？
Jan: Thanks for having me. I’m great thank you.
扬：谢谢你有我。 非常感谢您。
Louis: Good, it’s great to have you on. You were recommended to us by Joel Falconer who’s been doing some blogging for the various SitePoint sites, thought it’d be cool to have you on and talk a bit about your product and your experiences freelancing and working with a lot of freelancers with Paymo.
路易斯：好的，很高兴您加入。 Joel Falconer向您推荐了我们，他一直在为各种SitePoint网站做博客，认为与您聊天并谈论您的产品和您的自由职业经验以及与Paymo的许多自由职业者一起工作很酷。
Jan: Yeah, I’ll be happy to share any things I’ve learned from our experience.
扬：是的，我很乐意分享从我们的经验中学到的任何东西。
Louis: That’s great. So, before we dive into any of that do you want to talk a bit about your website, about your product, which is called Paymo and it’s at paymo.biz, is that right?
路易斯：太好了。 因此，在我们深入探讨其中的任何内容之前，您想谈论一下您的网站，您的产品(称为Paymo，位于paymo.biz )，对吗？
Jan: Yeah, paymo.biz, yeah.
简：是的， paymo.biz ，是的。
Louis: Do you want to just tell us a bit about it and tell us what gave you the idea to start it and how it’s been going.
路易斯：您想告诉我们一些有关它的信息，是什么让您想到了启动它的方法以及进展如何。
Jan: Sure. So, basically Paymo is a time tracking service, an online app, that allows you to manage your team’s time and your own time, it’s also for freelancers with businesses too. At the core it’s a time tracking service but we built a bunch of tools around it like project management and invoicing, so it really helps you manage your business online, especially if you’re working on projects where you need to know how long a task takes and things like this.
Jan：好的。 因此，Paymo基本上是一个时间跟踪服务，是一个在线应用程序，它使您可以管理团队的时间和自己的时间，也适用于有业务的自由职业者。 核心是时间跟踪服务，但是我们围绕它构建了许多工具，例如项目管理和发票，因此它确实可以帮助您在线管理业务，尤其是当您正在从事需要知道任务多长时间的项目时需要这样的事情。
Louis: Right. So how long have you been running this site?
路易斯：对。 那么您运行这个网站多久了？
Jan: We started in 2008 and for a year we kept the service for free, so we didn’t have any commercial product so to speak, and in 2009 we redesigned the whole app after we got a lot of feedback from our users, basically that’s the point where it was a product that we started to sell.
Jan：我们从2008年开始，一年以来我们一直免费提供服务，所以我们没有任何商业产品可以这么说。2009年，在收到用户的大量反馈之后，我们重新设计了整个应用程序，基本上这就是我们开始销售产品的关键所在。
Louis: Right. So right now is there still a free option on the service, though?
路易斯：对。 那么，现在该服务还有免费的选择吗？
Jan: Yeah, of course. From the beginning this was our philosophy. In our careers a lot of tools that we used were open source or free and they helped us a lot, so when we decided to create a premium version of the product we knew that we had to give away for free the core services of the app, so we will always have a free version of our service.
Jan：是的，当然。 从一开始，这就是我们的理念。 在我们的职业生涯中，我们使用的许多工具都是开源的或免费的，它们为我们提供了很多帮助，因此，当我们决定创建产品的高级版本时，我们知道我们必须免费提供该应用程序的核心服务，因此我们将始终提供免费的服务版本。
Louis: Right. So you mentioned when you were working previous to this before doing Paymo you were just a standard sort of work-for-hire web shop, right?
路易斯：对。 因此，您提到在进行Paymo之前从事此工作之前，您只是一种标准的可租用网上商店，对吗？
Jan: Yeah. We were a web development agency working on projects for other companies and individuals.
简：是的。 我们是一家网络开发机构，致力于其他公司和个人的项目。
Louis: And so is Paymo something you built for use internally and then realized that you had a product that you could sell, or was it something where you knew at the end of the day it was going to be a product that you would try and mass market?
路易斯： Paymo也是如此，您构建了供内部使用的产品，然后意识到您拥有可以销售的产品，或者最终知道该产品将成为您将尝试使用的产品大众市场？
Jan: No, we built it for ourselves because at that point we looked at the solutions that were available and none of them fit our needs, so we started working in our free time in creating it and then we saw that actually other people might use it too, and in 2008 we created a website and just gave away the service for free, and really it was something totally new to us, we hadn’t had any experience in creating products or services, so the feedback was great and we decided to change our model and focus on the product.
扬：不，我们为自己构建了它，因为那时候我们查看了可用的解决方案，但是这些解决方案都不符合我们的需求，因此我们开始在空闲时间工作以创建它，然后我们发现实际上其他人可能会使用同样，在2008年，我们创建了一个网站，并免费提供了免费服务，这对我们来说确实是全新的，我们在创建产品或服务方面没有任何经验，因此反馈很好，因此我们决定改变我们的模式并专注于产品。
Louis: Right, so at present are you not doing anymore client work?
路易斯：对，所以您现在不做客户服务吗？
Jan: We separated our company so we created a new company for Paymo, the old team is right now focusing only on Paymo, and part of the old team is focusing on the web development agency, so they are totally separate at the moment.
Jan：我们分开了公司，所以我们为Paymo创建了新公司，旧团队现在只专注于Paymo，而旧团队的一部分则专注于Web开发代理，因此目前它们是完全分开的。
Louis: Right. You were mentioning earlier that you said when you were thinking about starting, or thinking about building a product for time tracking, you mentioned that none of the products out there suited your needs. What’s interesting to me in this case is that it’s not a totally new market, like a lot of times you hear about these agencies that go out and branch out in product and they’re making something that doesn’t exist, but in this case there were definitely a few other time tracking and invoicing and project management solutions on the Internet. What was it that made you feel that you needed a different product or a new product?
路易斯：对。 您之前提到的是您在考虑启动或考虑构建用于时间跟踪的产品时说的，当时提到的产品都不符合您的需求。 在这种情况下，对我来说有趣的是，这不是一个全新的市场，就像很多次您听说这些代理商不断进军产品分支，他们正在做的事情不存在一样，但是在这种情况下互联网上肯定还有其他一些时间跟踪，开发票和项目管理解决方案。 是什么让您感到您需要其他产品或新产品？
Jan: The main thing was that we used a couple of services and none of the people on the team were actually using it, and the main reason behind this was that they ran in the browser and inputting time into the system was time consuming and you had to look at all these tables, it was very complicated. So then we figured that if we want to make some money from this business we really need to know how much we’re spending on projects, so this was always a problem for us, we were always getting paid less than we actually worked for, and the solution was to create a desktop widget, an app that would run on your desktop that interacted with the online system. So this is something that at the moment we started working on Paymo didn’t exist.
Jan：最主要的是我们使用了一些服务，而团队中的所有人都没有真正使用过它，其主要原因是他们在浏览器中运行并且在系统中输入时间很耗时，而您必须查看所有这些表，这非常复杂。 因此，我们得出结论，如果我们想从这项业务中赚钱，我们真的需要知道我们在项目上花了多少钱，所以这对我们来说一直是个问题，我们的薪水总是比实际工作少，解决方案是创建一个桌面小部件，这是一个可以在您的桌面上运行且与在线系统交互的应用程序。 因此，此刻我们开始从事Paymo的工作并不存在。
Louis: Right.
路易斯：对。
Jan: This was one of the main reasons that we created Paymo. We wanted to make it much more easier to add time into the system.
Jan：这是我们创建Paymo的主要原因之一。 我们希望使添加时间到系统中变得更加容易。
Louis: Yeah. When you say a desktop widget, did you build this cross platform from the get-go?
路易斯：是的。 当您说桌面小部件时，您是从一开始就构建了这个跨平台的吗？
Jan: Yeah. We had people using Macs and PCs on the team, so this was also a huge problem because there were solutions out there that we could use but none of them worked cross platform.
简：是的。 我们的团队中有使用Mac和PC的人员，所以这也是一个很大的问题，因为那里有可以使用的解决方案，但没有一个可以跨平台使用。
Louis: Right.
路易斯：对。
Jan: This was again a thing that we needed and we built it.
扬：这又是我们需要的东西，我们建造了它。
Louis: Right. Right now so you have desktop widgets for Mac and Windows?
路易斯：对。 现在，您是否拥有Mac和Windows的桌面小部件？
Jan: Yeah, exactly.
简：是的，是的。
Louis: And Linux or not?
路易：还是Linux？
Jan: It’s not very straightforward but you can run it on Linux too.
Jan：这不是很简单，但是您也可以在Linux上运行它。
Louis: Right. Did you guys have in-house the kind of expertise to work in desktop platforms or were you all web guys and had to go out and learn these new technologies?
路易斯：对。 你们有内部专家在台式机平台上工作吗，还是你们都是网络专家，不得不出去学习这些新技术？
Jan: One of our colleagues was really an expert on desktop so it wasn’t a big deal for us, that helped, certainly helped a lot, and we also had experience building large websites so this came in handy because a system like this really requires all kinds of skills that you usually don’t get when working on smaller projects, so these things certainly helped us.
Jan：我们的一位同事真的是桌面专家，因此对我们来说并不重要，对我们帮助不大，当然也对我们有很大帮助，而且我们还拥有构建大型网站的经验，因此非常有用，因为这样的系统需要从事小型项目时通常不具备的各种技能，因此这些事情无疑对我们有所帮助。
Louis: Right. Just to geek out for a second here, what kind of technologies did you use for the desktop widgets and for the website itself, the backend?
路易斯：对。 只是在这里稍作介绍，您对桌面小部件以及网站本身(后端)使用了哪种技术？
Jan: For the backend we use PHP and MySQL, and for the desktop we use C++ or Visual C++ in the case of Windows. And on the Mac, but here is the cool thing, the core widget is actually just a web page but it’s wrapped by a desktop app, so this makes it easy for us to maintain it and run it also on the Mac or on Windows and on Linux too.
Jan：对于后端，我们使用PHP和MySQL，对于台式机，我们使用C ++或Visual C ++(对于Windows)。 在Mac上，但这很酷，核心小部件实际上只是一个网页，但由桌面应用程序包装，因此，我们可以轻松地对其进行维护并在Mac或Windows上运行在Linux上也是如此。
Louis: Yeah, that’s cool. So, one of the things that’s interesting for me, and I imagine that it’s going to be interesting for a lot of listeners as well, is that transition from a company that was primarily focused on servicing client projects to a company that was focused on delivering a pay-to-play product to the wider Internet. I’ve spoken with people before who say that’s something you should be careful when you’re thinking about doing because it’s hard to do two things at once in the same team. So how did you guys approach it and what were the challenges that you faced in that migration from dealing with clients to working on building this product?
路易斯：是的，这很酷。 因此，对我来说有趣的一件事是，从很多主要为客户项目提供服务的公司到专注于交付向更广泛的互联网提供付费游戏产品。 我已经与其他人交谈过，他们之前说过要考虑这一点，因为在同一团队中很难同时做两件事。 那么，你们是如何应对它的呢？从与客户打交道到开发该产品的迁移过程中，您面临什么挑战？
Jan: Yeah, well, the transition is pretty hard because they are totally separate businesses, and things that apply in one type of business don’t apply at all in the other one, so we really made a bunch of mistakes that we weren’t even aware of at the moment when we started building a product, and everything took way longer than it should have been if you look at it from this point of view. But it also allowed us to — having a primary business allowed us to create this product without going to investors, without taking out loans.
扬：是的，过渡非常困难，因为它们是完全独立的业务，并且适用于一种业务的事物根本不适用于另一种业务，因此我们确实犯了很多本来不是的错误甚至在我们开始构建产品的那一刻都没有意识到，而且一切花费的时间都比从这种角度来看时要长得多。 但是，这也使我们能够拥有主要业务，这使我们无需借贷就无需贷款就可以创建该产品。
Louis: Yeah, right.
路易斯：是的，对。
Jan: So the money the web agency made we used that money to create the product. However, in the first years we didn’t focus as much on the product as we should have been, and this really made the business develop much slower and more organically than you could do if you would have sort of a business advisor from the start and a lot of money to spend on marketing and things like this. But in the end for us it worked out pretty well.
Jan：网络代理商赚到的钱就是我们用这笔钱来创造产品的。 但是，在最初的几年中，我们没有像以前那样专注于产品，这确实使业务发展比从一开始就拥有业务顾问时要慢得多，而且有机程度更高以及用于营销和类似活动的大量资金。 但最终对我们来说效果很好。
Louis: Right. If anyone listening or is involved with or is running a web agency and sort of has an idea for a product that they think they could develop and sell but they don’t necessarily think they have time to do it alongside their client work, what’s the top piece of advice you’d give to someone in that position?
路易斯：对。 如果任何人正在聆听，参与或正在经营网络代理，并且对某种产品有想法，他们认为他们可以开发和销售，但他们不一定认为他们有时间与客户一起做，那该怎么办？您会给处于那个位置的人的最佳建议？
Jan: Top advice, that’s hard (laughter). I think they should really, really analyze the market and see what the opportunities are, and try really to go into as much detail as they can about the new business that they are trying to start because it’s really, really hard, there’s tons of competition in every niche, so going after a niche is no longer good advice because every small niche is filled with tons of competitors, and you really need to see if you have the skills and the money to create a new business.
扬：最好的建议，这很难(笑)。 我认为他们应该真的，真的要分析市场，看看有什么机会，并尽力尽可能地详细介绍他们要开始的新业务，因为这确实非常非常困难，存在大量竞争在每个利基市场中，追求一个利基市场不再是一个好建议，因为每个小利基市场都充满了无数竞争者，您确实需要查看您是否具备技能和金钱来创建新业务。
Louis: Right.
路易斯：对。
Jan: Because otherwise it will be at least one or two years of work down the drain, that’s got to hurt if you don’t make it.
扬：因为否则将至少需要一到两年的工作，如果不这样做，那肯定会很痛苦。
Louis: What’s interesting, though, is your case sort of almost serves to disprove that because I can hardly think of a niche of sort of online service based product for web designers and web developers that there’s more competition in than sort of these time tracking product management apps, and I think the reason for that is that web designers and developers want to build apps that they would use.
路易斯：不过，有趣的是，您的案例几乎足以证明这一点，因为我很难想到针对网页设计师和网络开发人员的基于在线服务的产品市场，与这些时间跟踪产品相比，竞争更多管理应用程序，我认为这是因为Web设计师和开发人员希望构建将使用的应用程序。
Jan: Yeah, absolutely.
简：是的，绝对。
Louis: And that’s the main kind of online tool that you’d want to use as a web designer, developer. But despite this you guys managed to come into the market fairly late and still build up a fairly successful business.
路易斯：这是您要用作网页设计师，开发人员的主要在线工具。 但是尽管如此，你们还是设法相当晚地进入市场，并且仍然建立了相当成功的业务。
Jan: Actually when we came out it wasn’t that late, so at the moment we came out with the free app, the first version, there were only a couple of other online time tracking tools in 2008 that were pretty good. But in that year when I said we made a lot of mistakes, from 2008 to 2009 if we would have really, really focused on the product we would probably have gotten a lot of market share in that period, and at the same time a lot of our competitors sprang up because they also saw the opportunity in this market.
Jan：实际上，我们推出的时间还不算太晚，因此，当我们推出免费应用程序(第一个版本)时，2008年只有几个其他在线时间跟踪工具非常不错。 但是在那年，当我说我们犯了很多错误时，从2008年到2009年，如果我们能够真正专注于产品，那段时间我们可能会获得很多市场份额，与此同时，的竞争者如雨后春笋般出现，因为他们也看到了这个市场中的机会。
Louis: Yeah.
路易斯：是的。
Jan: So my advice right now if you would start another time tracking app —
Jan：所以，如果您要启动另一个时间跟踪应用程序，那么我现在的建议是-
Louis: Is don’t! (Laughs) Don’t do it.
路易斯：不是！ (笑)不要这样做。
Jan: Don’t do it. And I’m not saying that’s to avoid other people getting into this but it’s really crowded at the moment.
扬：不要这样做。 我并不是说这是为了避免其他人参与其中，但此刻确实很拥挤。
Louis: Yeah.
路易斯：是的。
Jan: So I would be looking at services or niches that have two, three, four competitors but not 20 or 40 or 50 or whatever, because it makes really, really hard to start a business like that unless you do something totally, totally awesome then (laughter).
扬：所以我要看的服务或壁ni有两个，三个，四个竞争对手，但没有20、40或50或任何其他竞争者，因为这真的很难开办这样的业务，除非您做得非常出色然后(笑声)。
Louis: I guess there’s always a way of differentiating. So how did you guys go about marketing your app in the beginning, was it just sort of organic, you talked to your friends and they talked to their friends and you weren’t really focusing on marketing or did you guys put in some effort to try and get the app in front of people?
路易斯：我想总有一种区别的方法。 因此，一开始你们是如何进行应用程序营销的，仅仅是有机的，您与朋友交谈，而他们与朋友交谈，您并没有真正专注于营销，或者你们是否付出了一定的努力？尝试将应用程序展示在人们面前？
Jan: In the first couple of months I had no idea how to market something like this because I was coming from services and for me it was totally new. So right when we started the app when the free version came out we didn’t really have any marketing dollars, so it was a lot of effort to try to get the product seen by people who are interested in this sort of thing, so we contacted a lot of bloggers, followed Tweets that were talking about time tracking and that sort of thing, and we really tried to get an opinion from people after using our system, so getting feedback from our initial users was crucial, and we listened to that.
扬：在最初的几个月中，我不知道如何营销这样的产品，因为我来自服务行业，对我来说这是全新的。 因此，当免费版本发布时，当我们启动该应用程序时，我们实际上并没有任何营销费用，因此要让对这种事情感兴趣的人看到该产品需要付出很大的努力，因此我们联系了很多博客作者，然后关注有关时间跟踪和诸如此类的推文，我们在使用我们的系统后确实试图从人们那里征求意见，因此从最初的用户那里获得反馈至关重要，我们听取了。
Louis: Sorry, I’m just going to interrupt you for a second. In that initial phase how many users did you have on the system if you don’t mind me asking?
路易斯：对不起，我只想打扰您一秒钟。 在初始阶段，如果您不介意我问，您在系统上有多少个用户？
Jan: Probably a couple of thousand in the first year. Yeah, it’s really, really hard to get people to use your system when you’re absolutely new on the market, and I really appreciate the trust the initial users gave our system, and as a piece of advice if you’re trying to start a web app or a service it’s very important to try to find people that fit the early adopter profile, so to speak, because they are willing to accept bogs, downtime, stuff like that, just to try the service because they like it. So it’s very important to go and try to find these people and get them to use your service by any means you can do it.
Jan：第一年大概有几千。 是的，当您绝对是市场上的新手时，要让人们使用您的系统确实非常困难，并且我非常感谢最初用户对我们系统的信任，并且如果您尝试启动该系统，请注意一些建议。一个Web应用程序或一项服务，重要的是要设法找到适合早期采用者概况的人员，可以这么说，因为他们愿意接受沼泽，停机时间之类的事情，只是因为他们喜欢就可以尝试该服务。 因此，去寻找这些人并让他们以任何可以使用的方式使用您的服务非常重要。
Louis: Yeah. And it must have been particularly interesting; a lot of these kinds of services and startups are based in either the U.S. or Australia or Canada. Where are you guys based out of?
路易斯：是的。 而且一定很有趣。 这些服务和创业公司中有很多都位于美国，澳大利亚或加拿大。 你们是从哪里来的？
Jan: We’re based in Romania in Europe so that makes it a bit harder for us, but we’re doing the best we can.
Jan：我们的总部位于欧洲的罗马尼亚，这给我们增加了一些困难，但我们正在尽力而为。
Louis: Yeah. So when it came time to design your app and you’re developing an app in English for an English speaking audience, what was your strategy going about getting the copywriting and getting all the interface done in a way that was clear and understandable for an English speaking audience?
路易斯：是的。 因此，当需要设计您的应用程序时，并且您正在为英语为英语的听众开发英语应用程序时，您的策略是如何以英语清晰易懂的方式获得广告文案并完成所有界面说话的听众？
Jan: We really did all the work ourselves. I assume that having worked for a number of years with companies based in the U.S. and also in Australia made us understand that market quite well and we didn’t have any major problems in this regard.
扬：我们真的亲自完成了所有工作。 我认为与美国和澳大利亚的公司合作已经有很多年了，这使我们非常了解该市场，并且在这方面没有任何重大问题。
Louis: That’s really impressive because I mean I’m looking at the interface and the copywriting is really good and sort of speaks really clearly to me, and so I have to say a big congratulations to whoever is doing the copywriting because for someone who doesn’t have English as a first language I’m really impressed.
路易斯：这确实令人印象深刻，因为我的意思是我正在查看界面，并且文案写作真的很好，并且对我说的很清楚，所以我要对任何从事文案写作的人表示极大的祝贺，因为对于那些不这样做的人我没有真正以英语为第一语言。
Jan: Thank you, thank you.
扬：谢谢，谢谢。
Louis: Right. So I wanted to come back a little bit, you guys had been working as a freelance web development and design team for some time, and you said you were working with international clients as well?
路易斯：对。 所以我想回来一点，你们已经作为自由网络开发和设计团队工作了一段时间，并且您说您也在与国际客户一起工作？
Jan: Yes.
扬：是的。
Louis: How long had you been working as a freelance business or as a project based business before you decided to start Paymo?
路易斯：在您决定创办Paymo之前，您从事自由职业或基于项目的业务已有多长时间了？
Jan: We’ve worked for approximately five years.
Jan：我们已经工作了大约五年。
Louis: Right. You’re obviously successful in that business; was there a moment when you were starting Paymo where you thought we might be spending time and money on something that might now work out when we already have a successful business?
路易斯：对。 您在这项业务中显然很成功； 当您启动Paymo时是否有片刻的时间，您认为我们可能会花时间和金钱去做一些事情，而当我们已经拥有成功的业务时，这些事情现在可能会解决？
Jan: It was a decision that we had to make. After we saw the attraction for the free app that we launched it was really a point where we have to decide what we’ll do next, do we focus on the product or on the web development agency, it wasn’t an easy decision. Of course the app at that moment wasn’t making any money so it was a risk, but we really wanted to try something new and the context allowed us to continue our old business without getting too involved in it, and I had the pleasure of working with a couple of guys that were able to pick up the business and focus on that, and we managed to separate the company into two companies and it worked out quite well, at least until now.
扬：这是我们必须做出的决定。 在看到我们推出的免费应用程序的吸引力之后，这实际上是我们必须决定下一步要做的事情，我们专注于产品还是网站开发机构的问题，这不是一个容易的决定。 当然，当时的应用程序还没有赚钱，所以这是一个风险，但是我们真的想尝试一些新的东西，而上下文使我们能够继续从事旧业务而又不参与其中，而我很高兴与几个能够开展业务并专注于此的人一起工作，我们设法将公司分为两个公司，而且效果很好，至少到现在为止。
Louis: (Laughs) no, that’s a great success story. Speaking of which until now, do you want to throw out some stats, like you guys have been doing pretty well, I see some stats here on the home page, but have things been going well for you?
路易斯：(笑)不，那是一个伟大的成功故事。 说到现在，您是否想抛出一些统计数据，就像你们的表现一直不错，我在主页上看到了一些统计数据，但是一切进展顺利吗？
Jan: Yeah, we’ve been growing the business and the vast majority of our clients are happy with the service and continue to be subscribed to it so that makes us very happy, and it allows us to build new stuff and expand, and we really want to create something that people actually don’t fear to use because, let’s face it, time tracking is something that people don’t like (laughter), but we’re trying to make it as pleasant as possible and in the end it really pays more, this is what Paymo is about; it gets you paid more because once you have a clear view of how you spend your time or your team spends their time you’re able to make decisions based on that and you will get more profitable. And this is not something — I’m saying this is what we hear daily from our users.
扬：是的，我们一直在发展业务，我们的绝大多数客户对该服务感到满意，并继续订阅该服务，这使我们感到非常高兴，它使我们能够开发新产品并进行扩展，我们真的想要创建人们实际上并不害怕使用的东西，因为面对现实，时间跟踪是人们不喜欢的(笑声)，但是我们正在努力使它尽可能地令人愉悦，最终它确实付出了更多，这就是Paymo的目的； 它使您获得更高的报酬，因为一旦您清楚地了解自己如何度过时间或团队度过了自己的时间，便能够据此做出决策，从而获得更多的利润。 这不是问题-我是说这是我们每天从用户那里听到的信息。
Louis: Yeah, absolutely, I imagine. And for a lot of people just getting into doing client work it’s easy to sort of — the small request, right, the little 15 minute sort of, “oh, can you just go and update this file,” —
路易斯：是的，绝对可以，我想。 对于很多刚开始做客户工作的人来说，很容易-很小的请求，正确的，只有15分钟的时间，“哦，您能去更新这个文件，”-
Jan: That kills you.
简：真让你丧命。
Louis: — you do one of those a day and all of a sudden you’re actually working for less than you’d be making at Burger King.
路易斯： -您每天只做一次，突然之间，实际上您的工作收入少于汉堡王的工作。
Jan: Yeah, we’ve made that mistake. In the first three years when we started our business we had a lot of clients that were just like that, and I’m sure every freelancer, small company, knows this. And at a point you have to decide and you have to fire some of your clients, there’s no other way around it otherwise they’ll keep you dragging down forever and it’s not good for you and maybe not good for them either in the end.
扬：是的，我们犯了那个错误。 在我们开始业务的头三年中，我们有很多这样的客户，而且我敢肯定，每个自由职业者(小公司)都知道这一点。 在这一点上，您必须做出决定，并且必须解雇一些客户，没有其他解决办法，否则他们将永远拖累您，这对您不利，也可能最终对他们不利。
Louis: So in your case there’s a couple of things I want to mention, one is you said you’re working on new stuff, can you give us any hints of what we can look forward to, if anyone’s using Paymo the new features coming out they can look forward to or are you thinking about new products?
路易斯：在您的情况下，有两件事我想提及，一是您说您正在开发新产品，如果有人使用Paymo，新功能将为您提供一些我们可以期待的提示吗？他们会期待还是您正在考虑新产品？
Jan: Yeah, we want to make some pretty radical changes in our next version. At the moment I cannot really talk about them, but I assure you that they will be something pretty cool.
Jan：是的，我们想在下一个版本中进行一些非常大的更改。 目前，我还不能真正谈论它们，但是我向您保证，它们将非常酷。
Louis: That’s what they all say, man, every time I ask that question.
路易斯：每次我问这个问题时，所有人都是这么说的。
Jan: Yeah (laughs).
扬：是的(笑)。
Louis: I’m going to keep trying; one day someone is going to be like, yes, as a matter of fact I can tell you that the next version will include this feature and this feature.
路易斯：我将继续努力； 某天某人会是这样，事实上，我可以告诉您，下一版本将包含此功能和此功能。
Jan: When we’ll be closer to our vision I’m sure I’ll be able to talk about it, but I’ll be really honest here, a lot of stuff that we did was copied very fast by others, and honestly in this business everyone is copying everyone, so this is the truth about it, but there are a couple of key features that differentiate the product and that’s where you sometimes have to keep a secret.
Jan：当我们接近我们的愿景时，我敢肯定我会谈论它，但我在这里真的很诚实，我们所做的许多事情被其他人很快复制了，说实话在这项业务中，每个人都在抄袭每个人，所以这是事实，但是有几个关键功能使产品与众不同，因此有时您必须保密。
Louis: Yeah. One of the things I find interesting, so we were mentioning you guys have a free plan and you said you plan on keeping that an option.
路易斯：是的。 我发现其中一件有趣的事，因此我们提到的是你们有免费计划，而您说您打算保留这一选择。
Jan: Yeah, forever, yeah.
扬：是的，永远，是的。
Louis: See, this is really interesting to me because I remember — so what happened is I first looked into this about three years ago when I was doing some freelance work, and I hadn’t looked into any of the time tracking or project management web apps for quite some time, so I let it slide for two or three years. And then recently just last week my girlfriend was going to start doing some freelance administration work and she asked me, “Oh, what do you use for invoicing?” And I said, “Oh, just go use this thing,” and she looked it up and was like, “It’s $20.00 a month,” and I’m like “Oh, no, no, there’s a free plan,” and she’s like, “No, there isn’t.” And a lot of these services have sort of discontinued their free plans as the market has become more mature.
路易斯：看，这对我来说真的很有趣，因为我记得–所以发生的事情是大约三年前我第一次从事这项工作时，当时我从事一些自由职业，而我没有研究任何时间跟踪或项目管理网络应用程序使用了很长时间，所以我让它滑动了两三年。 然后最近最近上周，我的女友打算开始做一些自由职业管理工作，她问我：“哦，您用什么来开票？” 我说：“哦，就去用这个东西吧。”她抬起头来，说，“每月20.00美元”，我说：“哦，不，不，有免费计划，”例如，“不，没有。” 随着市场变得越来越成熟，这些服务中有很多已经停止了免费计划。
Jan: Yeah.
简：是的。
Louis: But you’re willing to make a commitment that that’s never going to happen with Paymo.
路易斯：但是您愿意做出Paymo永远不会发生的承诺。
Jan: Yeah, absolutely. Everyone is — if you look at the bigger players, not only in this niche but in online services, everyone says hide your free plan somewhere, whatever you need to calculate your conversions, the free plan will set you off-balance; I really don’t believe in this and we want to give the core services for free to our users because we know they aren’t making a lot of money and some of them can’t afford it. So, the concept here is really simple, we give you the free stuff and we hope that it will help you enough to become a customer, that’s basically it.
简：是的，绝对。 每个人都是-如果您不只是在这个细分市场中，而且在在线服务中看到更大的参与者，那么每个人都会说将免费计划藏在某个地方，无论您需要什么来计算转化，免费计划都会使您失去平衡。 我真的不相信这一点，我们想向用户免费提供核心服务，因为我们知道他们赚不到很多钱，有些人付不起钱。 因此，这里的概念真的很简单，我们为您提供免费的东西，希望它能为您提供足够的帮助，使其成为客户，基本上就是这样。
Louis: That’s a great attitude and I have a lot of respect for that, so I’m cheering for you guys, I hope this works out because this is something that I like to see when I come to a site and still see that free plan and say, look, if I just want to try it out, if I’m just starting a business absolutely I agree, I’m not going to shell out twenty bucks for a service, I’ll just put it in Excel really is what’s going to happen, or I’ll put it in a Google document.
路易斯：这是一种很好的态度，我对此非常尊重，所以我为你们加油打气，我希望这种方法能奏效，因为当我来到某个站点并且仍然免费时，这是我希望看到的东西计划，然后说，看，如果我只是想尝试一下，如果我绝对要开始做生意，我同意，我不会花20美元来买一份服务，我会把它真的放在Excel中将会发生什么，或者我将其放入Google文档中。
Jan: And there’s also another advantage that even if you from the start you want the premium plan we really make it easy for you to decide, you can use the free plan and it’s only limited to the number of users you can use, so if you’re a company with 50 users and you want time tracking system you can sign up for an account with us and use the limited free version for a month or two, see if it works out, see what the people in the company think about it, because this is crucial with these types of apps, and once everyone agrees that they like it you can just upgrade your account.
扬：还有一个好处是，即使您从一开始就想要高级计划，我们确实可以让您轻松决定，但您可以使用免费计划，而且仅限于可以使用的用户数，因此如果您是一家拥有50个用户的公司，并且您希望使用时间跟踪系统，您可以在我们这里注册一个帐户，并使用有限的免费版本一两个月，看看效果如何，看看公司中人们的想法，因为这对于这类应用程序至关重要，一旦所有人都同意他们喜欢它，您就可以升级您的帐户。
Louis: Really good. Was there anything else you wanted to mention before we go?
路易斯：很好。 在我们出发之前，您还有什么想提的吗？
Jan: Well, I would be very happy if your listeners would check out our service, and I also do customer service so if anyone has any kind of questions about Paymo I’d be more than happy to help them out and answer their questions. And if anyone out there is thinking of starting their business my advice is that, yeah, do it but please make sure you analyze the market and think about that decision because it can be life changing.
扬：好吧，如果您的听众可以检查我们的服务，我也将非常高兴，而且我还将提供客户服务，因此，如果有人对Paymo存有任何疑问，我将非常乐意为他们提供帮助并回答他们的问题。 如果有人在考虑开始他们的业务，我的建议是，是的，但是请确保您分析市场并考虑该决定，因为它可能会改变生活。
Louis: Yeah, absolutely. And in your case I’m happy to see that it’s been life changing for the better and that you’re in a better place where you’re working on something that you enjoy now.
路易斯：是的，绝对。 在您的情况下，我很高兴看到生活正在变得越来越美好，并且您所处的环境更美好，您正在从事自己喜欢的工作。
Jan: Yeah.
简：是的。
Louis: It’s great to see these kind of success stories and, again, I said like I really like the look of the app, I hadn’t heard of it before Joel brought it up, but it’s definitely something I would recommend because I do like the design and there’s a free plan, right, so it’s easy to recommend to people if they want to check it out. So the website is paymo.biz, that’s p-a-y-m-o dot b-i-z and if anyone wants to follow you on Twitter do they follow you at the Paymo or do they follow you on your account?
路易斯：很高兴看到这样的成功案例，我再次说，就像我真的很喜欢应用程序的外观一样，在乔尔提出它之前我从未听说过它，但是绝对推荐我这样做，因为我愿意像设计一样，还有一个免费的计划，对，因此很容易向人们推荐，如果他们想检查一下。 因此，该网站为paymo.biz ，即paymo dot biz，如果有人想在Twitter上关注您，他们是在Paymo上关注您还是在您的帐户上关注您？
Jan: Yeah, both. If they follow our main Twitter account they’ll get all the updates and latest news and promotions that we’re running, and if someone wants to follow me I talk about a lot of things on Twitter if you’re curious.
简：是的，两个。 如果他们遵循我们的主要Twitter帐户，他们将获得我们正在运行的所有更新，最新新闻和促销；如果有人想关注我，如果您好奇的话，我会在Twitter上谈论很多事情。
Louis: What’s your account?
路易斯：您的帐户是什么？
Jan: Jan, j-a-n underscore Lukacs (@jan_lukacs), but if you look at our website on our team page you can follow me directly from there.
Jan： Jan，jan在Lukacs ( @jan_lukacs )下划线，但是如果您在我们团队页面上查看我们的网站，则可以从那里直接关注我。
Louis: Absolutely. And I’ll put a link in the show notes as well.
路易斯：绝对。 我也将在展示笔记中添加一个链接。
Jan: Okay, thank you.
扬：好的，谢谢。
Louis: Thanks so much for coming on the show and talking with me about this stuff, Jan; it’s been an absolute pleasure.
路易斯：非常感谢您参加演出，并与我谈论这些内容，扬； 这是绝对的荣幸。
Jan: Thanks, Louis.
Jan：谢谢，Louis。
Louis: Especially given the listeners won’t know this but we’re recording sort of on a whim, we were trying to sort out a time because it’s a little difficult to match time zones in Europe and Australia, and I was just coming home from a day off and happened to see your email and like, oh, I’m in the office now let’s do this.
路易斯：特别是考虑到听众对此一无所知，但我们正在随心所欲地录制音乐，我们正在尝试整理时间，因为匹配欧洲和澳大利亚的时区有点困难，而我正要回家从一天假开始，碰巧看到您的电子邮件，就像，哦，我现在在办公室，现在就开始吧。
Jan: Yeah, it’s awesome that we managed to do it now.
Jan：是的，我们现在能够做到这一点很棒。
Louis: Great timing. Alright, thanks again, Jan, and all the best in the future, look forward to seeing what’s in the future for Paymo and maybe have you back some time.
路易斯：时机不错。 好了，再次感谢Jan，也祝您未来一切顺利，我们期待看到Paymo的未来，也许您会回来。
Jan: Of course, thank you.
扬：当然，谢谢。
Louis: Alright, thank you.
路易斯：好，谢谢。
Jan: And thanks for having me, bye, bye.
扬：谢谢你有我，再见，再见。
Louis: Have a good day, bye. And thanks for listening to this week’s episode of the SitePoint Podcast. I’d love to hear what you thought about today’s show, so if you have any thoughts or suggestions just go to Sitepoint.com/podcast and you can leave a comment on today’s episode, you can also get any of our previous episodes to download or subscribe to get the show automatically. You can follow SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom, that’s sitepoint d-o-t-c-o-m, and you can follow me on Twitter @rssaddict. The show this week was produced by Karn Broad and I’m Louis Simoneau, thanks for listening and bye for now.
路易斯：祝你有美好的一天，再见。 感谢您收听本周的SitePoint播客。 我很想听听您对今天节目的看法，因此，如果您有任何想法或建议，请访问Sitepoint.com/podcast ，您可以对今天的节目发表评论，也可以下载我们以前的任何节目或订阅自动显示节目。 您可以在Twitter @sitepointdotcom (即站点点dotcom)上关注SitePoint ，也可以在Twitter @rssaddict上关注我。 本周的节目是由Karn Broad和我是Louis Simoneau制作的，感谢您的收听和再见。
Theme music by Mike Mella.
Mike Mella的主题音乐。
Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.
谢谢收听！ 欢迎使用下面的评论字段让我们知道我们的状况，或者继续讨论。
翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-137-paymo-with-jan-lukacs/
