SitePoint播客＃75：绝妙的杀伤力

Episode 75 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Patrick O’Keefe (@iFroggy), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Brad Williams (@williamsba), and Kevin Yank (@sentience).

SitePoint Podcast的第75集现已发布！ 本周的主持人是Patrick O'Keefe( @iFroggy )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )，Brad Williams( @williamsba )和Kevin Yank( @sentience )。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：

SitePoint Podcast #75: Awesome Overkill (MP3, 63.4MB, 1:06:01)

SitePoint播客＃75：绝妙的 杀伤力(MP3，63.4MB，1:06:01)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Here are the topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主题：

Google Wave Post-mortem

Google Wave验尸 Facebook to Remove Boxes This Week

Facebook本周删除盒子 The Official Tweet Button Launched

官方推文按钮启动 Adobe Fonts Come to the Web with Typekit

Adobe字体通过Typekit进入网络 IE9 Beta Coming September 15th, Despite PR Fail

尽管PR失败，但IE9 Beta将于9月15日发布 HTML5 Boilerplate Makes Web Development Easy, But Look Hard

HTML5 Boilerplate使Web开发容易，但看起来困难 jQuery Mobile Project Shines Light on Smartphone Browser Landscape

jQuery Mobile项目在智能手机浏览器领域大放异彩

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/75.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/75上显示的参考链接的完整列表。

主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)

Brad: Internet Explorer’s 15th Birthday

布拉德： Internet Explorer的15岁生日

Kevin: HTML Sanitisation: The Devil’s In The Details (And The Vulnerabilities)

凯文： HTML消毒：细节中的魔鬼(和漏洞)

Patrick: Bleep Bloop: Drone Robocopter

帕特里克： Bleep Bloop：无人机

Stephan: Double Rainbow 404

史蒂芬： 双彩虹404

显示成绩单 (Show Transcript)

Kevin: August 20th, 2010. Facebook boxes, Twitter buttons, Adobe fonts, and jQuery charts. I’m Kevin Yank and this is the SitePoint Podcast #75: Awesome Overkill.

凯文： 2010年8月20日。Facebook框，Twitter按钮，Adobe字体和jQuery图表。 我是凯文·扬克(Kevin Yank)，这是SitePoint播客＃75：绝妙的杀伤力。

And it is a packed episode of the SitePoint Podcast this week. We have so much news queued up I think I tempted fate by talking about our non-technical show a couple of weeks back, and tons of stuff to talk about, a lot of it technical, Brad why don’t you lead us off.

这是本周SitePoint播客的一集。 我们有这么多新闻排队，我想我在几周前谈论我们的非技术性展览会，以及很多要谈论的东西，其中很多都是技术性的话题，这很吸引命运，布拉德，为什么不带我们离开。

Brad: Sure, to lead things off we actually have another entry in the good old dead pool, and that is Google has announced that they are ending development of Google Wave, so everybody wave goodbye to Wave.

布拉德(Brad)：当然，要想脱颖而出，我们实际上在旧的死胡同中还有另外一个入口，那就是Google已经宣布他们将结束Google Wave的开发，因此每个人都向Wave告别。

Kevin: Oh, goodbye Wave.

凯文：哦，再见，波。

Brad: Yeah, Wave was actually debuted in June 2009 so it’s really just over a year old, and I believe it came out of beta in May of this year, so it was only officially a product for a few months prior to Google pulling the plug.

布拉德：是的，Wave实际上是在2009年6月首次亮相的，所以它才刚刚成立一年多了，我相信它是在今年5月退出测试版的，所以它只是Google正式推出几个月之前的正式产品。插头。

Kevin: There is a SitePoint connection to Google Wave as well. SitePoint author Cameron Adams, who I co-wrote Simply JavaScript with, and he also contributed to a couple of our other books, he was one of if not the front-end designer for Google Wave. And I don’t know if you guys used Wave much, but during its early days every week or so they would take the app down for maintenance, and the maintenance web page you saw said something like “Chill out, Wave will be back in a minute,” and it was a guy’s feet on a beach and the clouds floated by. And Cameron Adams feet, that’s what you were looking at when Google Wave was down. (Laughter)

凯文：还有与Google Wave的SitePoint连接。 我曾与SitePoint的作者卡梅伦·亚当斯(Cameron Adams)共同撰写过《简单JavaScript》，他还为我们的其他几本书做出了贡献，他甚至是Google Wave的前端设计师之一。 而且我不知道你们是否经常使用Wave，但是在每个星期的初期，他们都会关闭该应用进行维护，并且您看到的维护网页上说“冷静，Wave会重新进入一分钟，”那是一个男人的脚在沙滩上，乌云飘过。 和Cameron Adams的脚一样，这就是Google Wave倒闭时您正在寻找的东西。 (笑声)

Patrick: Trivia! Very nice.

帕特里克：琐事！ 非常好。

Kevin: Trivia, yep.

凯文：是的，琐事。

Patrick: You know when I saw this announcement I was a little bit surprised by I guess the negativity on Twitter about it, at least with the people I follow, about Wave, “Wave, oh well, good riddance, I didn’t use Wave anyway, what was it good for,” etcetera. I was a little surprised by that because, and I’ll confess that I, myself, didn’t really get into Wave right away, but I did find its usefulness or its power, thanks to my friend Wayne Sutton @waynesutton, and he swears by it, and he’s sorry to see it go because he used it for a lot of collaboration. And I was involved in a project with him and still am, and we were using it to talk and to share information and data and spreadsheets and whatnot, and it was very useful, so I could definitely see its usefulness, and in a way I am sorry to see it go.

帕特里克：您知道当我看到此公告时，我对Twitter的负面看法感到惊讶，至少与我关注的人对Wave感到消极，“挥手，哦，很好的摆脱，我没有使用不管怎么说，这有什么用，”等。 我对此感到有些惊讶，因为我承认我自己并没有马上进入Wave，但由于我的朋友Wayne Sutton @waynesutton ，我的确找到了它的用处或功能，他发誓，他很遗憾看到它成功，因为他将它用于很多合作。 我当时和他一起参与了一个项目，现在仍在进行中，我们正在使用它来进行交谈，共享信息，数据和电子表格等，这非常有用，因此我可以肯定地看到它的用处。很抱歉看到它。

Stephan: Yeah, we used it a lot at one of my projects, actually exclusively; we write a bunch of stuff, and there’s like six or seven of us that contribute and edit and things in Wave, and it’s been really nice and a pretty failsafe system until now.

斯蒂芬：是的，我们在我的一个项目中经常使用它，实际上是专门使用它。 我们写了很多东西，大约有六到七个人在Wave中进行了贡献和编辑，并且到目前为止，它确实非常好，并且是一个非常安全的故障保护系统。

Brad: One thing I wasn’t a huge fan of Wave from the start was the realtime aspect of it, and I guess my feeling is if I’m writing a message or I’m writing an email I like to make that email or that message as perfect as I can get it before I send it, so I don’t want who I’m sending it to to actually look at the message I’m getting ready to send them as I’m deleting words and spellchecking and things like that. I want to make sure its right before I send it in the first place. I mean I could certainly see instances where this makes sense just like it would maybe in a chat room if you’re talking with a team of people, but I never really liked that aspect of it so I never really got into it.

布拉德：一开始我并不是Wave的忠实拥护者，而是它的实时性，我想我的感觉是，我是在写消息还是在写电子邮件，我想写那封电子邮件或该消息在发送之前就已经尽其所能了，所以我不希望发送给该消息的人实际查看我准备发送给他们的消息，因为我正在删除单词并进行拼写检查，像这样的东西。 我想先确认它的正确性，然后再发送。 我的意思是，我当然可以看到这样的实例，就像在聊天室中与一群人聊天时一样，但我从不真正喜欢它的那个方面，所以我从来没有真正涉足。

Kevin: I think there was at least in the original demo I seem to remember there was a feature where you could turn off the live update, if you wanted to work on some text without it being transmitted live, and then when you were happy with it you could switch the live update back on. That’s one of those features that may have fallen by the wayside during the design process, I kind of feel like they went back and forth on the level of complexity they wanted in the user interface. But yeah, certainly the odd mix between a realtime communication medium and a document-authoring environment I guess it’s what made people so excited about it to begin with.

凯文：我认为至少在最初的演示中，我似乎记得有个功能，如果您想处理一些文本而又不实时传输，则可以关闭实时更新。您可以重新打开实时更新。 那是在设计过程中可能被遗弃的那些功能之一，我觉得它们在用户界面所需的复杂性水平上来回走动。 但是，是的，当然，实时通讯介质和文档编写环境之间的奇怪混合，我想这就是让人们开始如此兴奋的原因。

Brad: Was it ahead of its time? Should this launch five years from now, would it do well, is it just too ahead of its time?

布拉德：是不是提前了？ 应该从现在开始的五年后推出吗，它会做得很好吗，是否太早了？

Kevin: I feel like Google needs to — they often are very good at the undersell, but lately they’ve been overselling things a little bit. Like when you think back to Gmail and Wave’s launch was very much a replay of the Gmail strategy that they launched this thing in beta where you needed to get an invitation from other people who were already invited, and so this closed beta environment that they hoped to turn the service’s users into their marketing force for it. But what you saw with Gmail was that it was kind of this thing that was barely even announced, and the first time I heard about Gmail was through people who were using it and saying check this out, I’ll even send you an invitation. Google, they took the wraps off of Google Wave at their big Google IO Conference, and with this hour-long video it was amazingly impressive, and then the next thing they told you was, no, you can’t use it yet. So I don’t know if that’s what sort of planted the seeds of the negativity that Patrick was talking about that we’re now seeing around this cancellation that, “Oh, yeah, I knew it was bound to fail all the time!”

凯文(Kevin)：我感觉谷歌需要-他们通常很擅长卖空，但是最近他们有点卖空了。 就像您回想起Gmail和Wave的发布一样，是Gmail策略的重演，他们在Beta版中启动了此功能，您需要从已经被邀请的其他人那里获得邀请，因此他们希望这种封闭的Beta版环境将服务的用户转变为他们的营销力量。 但是您在Gmail上看到的是这种东西甚至都没有被宣布，而且我第一次听说Gmail是通过使用它的人并说要检查的，我什至会给您发送邀请。 Google，他们在大型的Google IO会议上摘下了Google Wave的内容，而这段长达一小时的视频给人留下了深刻的印象，然后他们告诉你的第二件事是，不，你还不能使用它。 因此，我不知道这是帕特里克所说的消极情绪的种子，我们现在正在取消取消时看到，“哦，是的，我知道它肯定会一直失败！”

Patrick: Well, I think it was a niche tool, and in some ways I would say how different is it from Google Docs, right; because Google Docs has a live aspect to it too if you’re sharing documents. I know because I worked through some documents there and there’s always, oh, xyz is editing this as well, okay well obviously if you want to control the document or it’s a message to a particular person then you might not want to do that there, but I could maybe see them rolling some of Wave’s features into Docs maybe optionally, right, maybe not necessarily a default feature but something people could use. And the blog post on the Google blog notes that central parts of the code as well as some protocols behind Wave’s innovations, that’s their words, like the drag and drop and the character by character live typing are already out there in open source, so customers and partners can play with those and continue to innovate upon them. So I don’t know if we’ll maybe see Wave in some other form from someone else, but they do say that they’ll provide some tools to get our data out of Wave as well, of course.

帕特里克：嗯，我认为这是一个利基工具，从某些方面来说，我想说它与Google文档有何不同，对； 因为如果您要共享文档，那么Google文档也具有实时性。 我知道，因为我在那儿浏览了一些文档，而且，xyz也总是在编辑它，好吧，显然，如果您想控制该文档或向特定人员发送消息，那么您可能不想在那儿做，但是我可能会看到他们将Wave的某些功能集成到了Docs中，可能是可选的，正确的，不一定是默认功能，而是人们可以使用的功能。 Google博客上的博客文章指出，代码的核心部分以及Wave创新背后的一些协议，就是他们的话，例如拖放和逐个字符的实时键入，这些都是开源的，因此客户合作伙伴可以与他们一起玩乐并继续在他们身上进行创新。 因此，我不知道我们是否会从其他人那里看到Wave的其他形式，但他们确实表示，他们还将提供一些工具来从Wave中提取数据。

Stephan: If it reincarnates into Docs I’ll be really happy. Like if they do some of the features in Docs I’ll be really happy, the way the document management is and stuff like that; I’ll be happy if they do that.

史蒂芬(Stephan)：如果它重新融入了文档，我将非常高兴。 就像他们执行Docs中的某些功能一样，我会很高兴，文档管理的方式以及诸如此类的东西； 如果他们这样做我会很高兴。

Brad: You know who I feel sorry for the most is probably the developers that have actually worked with the Google Wave API and spent hundreds or thousands of hours making these cool apps that integrate with Wave and now they’re essentially useless. And I think if this trend continues, because we saw Google Wave, we saw Pownce go down, if this trend continues developers are going to be a lot more hesitant to dive right into a new API until they know that service is established and they’re not just wasting their time, which in turn may not help the new service or app grow, so I mean if this trend continues it could certainly be bad for developers in the API world.

布拉德：您知道，最让我感到遗憾的可能是实际上已经使用Google Wave API的开发人员，他们花了数百或数千个小时来制作这些与Wave集成的很棒的应用程序，现在这些应用程序实际上已经毫无用处了。 而且我认为如果这种趋势继续下去，因为我们看到了Google Wave，我们看到了Pownce下降了，如果这种趋势继续下去，开发人员将更加犹豫，直接使用新的API，直到他们知道已经建立了服务并且他们不仅浪费时间，反过来可能不利于新服务或应用的增长，因此，我的意思是，如果这种趋势持续下去，那么对API世界的开发人员肯定是不利的。

Kevin: This topic, it’s kind of old news as we discuss it because the cancellation of Wave was announced just after our last news episode. And I think this is a milestone for us, guys, podcast listener Chris Trynkiewicz from Poland wrote in and he actually wrote in with his opinion on something that he predicted we were going to be talking about. I like this; this is initiative from our listeners. Chris writes: “My guess is that the marketing epic failed as Wave was released to public on the 18th of May 2010, that’s only two and a half months ago. Given the time that Gmail had to get its share, one can figure that this decision came too early; also there wasn’t even a solid way to connect Wave and Gmail or any other email account for that matter. What the heck were they thinking was going to happen in two months?” So, let’s talk about that for a bit. That two month period, was that Google Wave’s proving time?

凯文：这个话题，在我们讨论时有点陈旧，因为在上一则新闻发布后宣布取消Wave。 我认为这对我们来说是一个里程碑，来自波兰的播客听众Chris Trynkiewicz写道，他实际上写了自己的见解，他预言了我们将要谈论的内容。 我喜欢这个; 这是我们听众的倡议。 克里斯写道：“我的猜测是，仅在两个半月前，Wave在2010年5月18日向公众发布时，营销史诗就失败了。 鉴于Gmail必须获得分享的时间，因此可以断定这一决定为时过早； 此外，甚至没有可靠的方法来连接Wave和Gmail或任何其他电子邮件帐户。 他们认为两个月后会发生什么事情？” 因此，让我们讨论一下。 那两个月的时间是Google Wave的验证时间吗？

Stephan: I hope not. I hope they thought about it a little bit more than that. I mean just recently they’re releasing features like you can invite anybody without a Google Mail address to a Wave document just like, I don’t even know how long ago it was, it was like six weeks ago maybe, and now they’re killing it off. Well, I hope no one sent out their stuff to people who aren’t going to be able to access it when it’s done. So I don’t know, it seems like it’s a really short time period for them to really prove the technology, maybe it just really was one of those Labs things where they said from the beginning this probably won’t survive, who knows.

史蒂芬：我希望不会。 我希望他们对此有所了解。 我的意思是，最近他们发布了一些功能，例如您可以邀请没有Google Mail地址的任何人加入Wave文档，就像，我什至不知道是多久之前，也许是六个星期前，现在他们重新杀死它。 好吧，我希望没有人将他们的东西发送给那些在完成后无法访问的人。 因此，我不知道，对于他们而言，似乎真的需要很短的时间才能真正证明该技术，也许这只是Labs从一开始就说过的那些事情之一，谁知道呢。

Kevin: What struck me about the original pitch of Wave is it was announced at their developer conference, and really they saw Wave as the pipes underneath, and the user interface that they had built was really just sort of a proof of concept for them. They wanted developers to get on board and start building on top of this platform that they had assembled, and I feel like that public release two and a half months ago may have been sort of their last ditch attempt to gain the popularity that they felt this thing deserved, that after that closed beta period they kind of went, well, that didn’t work; maybe if we release it to the public that’s going to work instead, and so it was their last try at getting it the popularity they wanted. I don’t know, it’s hard to say, I for one have used Wave from time to time, I think I’ve written one document of significant size in the thing, and certainly I was inspired along with everyone else when watching their original demo, but it never really quite took off, it never really fulfilled the vision they wanted. And maybe it’s because their vision was so big and world changing, I mean they were taking on email and instant messaging. It feels like that’s the sort of revolution that would take five years even on the Web today, and maybe they were just pushing it too fast or trying to do too much at once. I’m sad to see it go and part of me is still hoping that because the Wave technology is open sourced maybe the mysterious benefactor with a longer timeline in mind will come along, rescue the technology, and we may yet see Wave rise from the ashes. Call it wishful thinking but I think Google had some good ideas.

凯文(Kevin)：对Wave的原始音调感到震惊的是在他们的开发者大会上宣布的，实际上，他们将Wave视为其下层管道，而他们所构建的用户界面实际上只是一种概念验证。 他们希望开发人员参与进来，并开始在他们组装的这个平台上进行构建，而且我觉得两个半月前的公开发布可能是他们最后一次尝试，以获得他们所认为的普及。当之无愧的是，在那个封闭的beta时期之后，他们走了，嗯，那是行不通的； 也许，如果我们将其发布给公众，它将开始起作用，所以这是他们最后一次尝试使其获得所需的知名度。 我不知道，这很难说，我不时使用Wave，我想我已经写了一篇相当大的文档，当然，当我观看其他人的原始作品时，我当然也受到了启发演示，但从未真正起步，也从未真正实现他们想要的愿景。 也许是因为他们的愿景如此广阔并且世界正在发生变化，我的意思是他们正在使用电子邮件和即时消息传递。 感觉就像是一场革命，即使在当今的Web上也要花费五年的时间，也许他们只是在推动它太快或试图一次做太多事情。 我很伤心看到它去和我的一部分仍然希望，由于Wave技术是开源，开源也许用一记长时间表神秘恩人一定会出现的，抢救技术，我们可以看到还没有从波上升骨灰。 称其为一厢情愿，但我认为Google有一些好主意。

Facebook, I don’t know if they have good ideas, but they are removing boxes from their application API this week. I don’t know if any of our listeners have written for the Facebook API, but for a while there Facebook was the app platform, it feels like, I don’t know, that Apple’s app store kind of stole its thunder a couple of years ago, but right up until that point Facebook was where web application developers were thinking of moving their skills to next. Rather than building a web app that sits on its own on your own website that you hope for people to discover you could build apps within the Facebook ecosystem and every Facebook user that installed that app would be displaying a box for your app on their profile page, and just by visiting your friends’ profile pages you could discover the apps they were using and hopefully install them yourself, and this was a way of promoting apps within this social environment. Well, that’s all going to change this week because boxes are going away. And depending on who you ask this is either a huge deal or no one actually cares about boxes anymore. Guys, when is the last time you actually remember seeing a Facebook box?

Facebook，我不知道他们是否有好主意，但本周他们正在从其应用程序API中删除框。 我不知道我们的听众是否为Facebook API编写过代码，但是有一段时间，Facebook是应用程序平台，感觉，我不知道，苹果的应用程序商店在某种程度上偷走了风头。多年前，但直到那时，Facebook才是Web应用程序开发人员考虑将其技能提升到下一个位置的地方。 与其构建一个自己希望自己发现的网站上的Web应用程序，不如希望人们发现您可以在Facebook生态系统中构建应用程序，而每个安装了该应用程序的Facebook用户都会在其个人资料页面上为您的应用程序显示一个框，只需访问朋友的个人资料页面，您就可以发现他们正在使用的应用程序并希望自己安装它们，这是在这种社交环境中推广应用程序的一种方式。 好吧，这一切都将在本周发生变化，因为盒子已经消失了。 而且取决于您问谁，这要么是一笔大买卖，要么是没人真正在乎盒子。 伙计们，您最后一次真正记得何时看到一个Facebook框？

Brad: I have some.

布拉德：我有一些。

Patrick: I would say recently.

帕特里克：我最近要说。

Kevin: Recently, yeah?

凯文：最近，是吗？

Patrick: Recently. I can’t place a specific date and time necessarily, but I guess recently when I looked at someone’s profile. I think another question is when is the last time I actually installed a box, now that was a long time ago; I don’t even remember the last time I put a box on my profile.

帕特里克：最近。 我不一定必须指定特定的日期和时间，但是我猜最近是在查看某人的个人资料时。 我认为另一个问题是，很久以前，我最后一次真正安装盒子是什么时候？ 我什至不记得上次我在个人资料上放一个盒子了。

Kevin: People are arguing that profile pages are starting to be a bit irrelevant on Facebook at the moment, that people live on Facebook through their newsfeeds and through the apps that they use full screen. And the idea that going to someone’s profile page and checking out their apps, their boxes, what it is they’re trying to say through their profile page, is kind of a thing of the past on Facebook.

凯文(Kevin)：人们争辩说，个人资料页面在Facebook上现在开始变得无关紧要，人们通过新闻源和全屏应用程序生活在Facebook上。 进入某人的个人资料页面并检查他们的应用程序，他们的盒子，他们想通过个人资料页面说什么的想法在Facebook上已经成为过去。

Patrick: I think that’s part of Facebook, though, is visiting and seeing what people did to their profile. I don’t know, I know there’s this sort of aversion to the MySpace that we think of as the music playing and glitter graphics and all of the sort of eye-catching things that area annoying to a lot of people, but Facebook has done a good job I would say of mitigating that through their different style requirements I guess I would call them where the boxes they look like they fit into the site, they match the same color scheme, you know it all kind of works together and looks fine. Now I just wonder, you know, if Facebook profiles are just a few things, let’s say, you can just have a box of your friends, you can just have your relationship status and your birthday, etcetera, you can just have your status updates. Then every profile will probably look the same unless they themselves step up with some sort of deeper customization options, because that was your option to customize your profile, to add boxes and to move things around. Now if that’s changing it’s going to be tabs, you know that’s not really much customization.

帕特里克：我认为这是Facebook的一部分，但是正在访问并查看人们对自己的个人资料做了什么。 我不知道，我知道对MySpace的这种厌恶情绪被我们视为音乐播放和闪光的图形，而所有吸引人的东西都吸引了人们的眼球，但是Facebook已经做到了我要说的是一项出色的工作，可以缓解它们通过不同的样式要求，我想我会称呼他们为看起来适合他们的盒子，它们匹配相同的配色方案，您知道它们可以一起工作并且看起来很好。 现在，我只是想知道，如果Facebook个人资料仅是几件事，比如说，您可以只拥有一盒朋友，就可以拥有自己的关系状态和生日，等等，还可以具有最新状态。 然后，每个配置文件可能看起来都一样，除非它们自己使用某种更深入的自定义选项，因为这是自定义配置文件，添加框和移动内容的选项。 现在，如果要更改的话，它将是制表符，您知道这并不是很多定制。

Kevin: I feel like Facebook has always tried to avoid customization, it’s something they’ve done grudgingly because they want to differentiate themselves from the ugly days of MySpace when everyone customized their page so much it was just a free for all and there was no MySpace look, the MySpace look was utter chaos.

凯文：我觉得Facebook一直在努力避免自定义，这是他们辛苦地做的，因为他们希望与MySpace的丑陋时代区分开来，因为每个人都对其页面进行了如此多的定制，这对所有人都是免费的，没有MySpace的外观，MySpace的外观完全混乱。

Brad: I think that was probably a good idea. MySpace was fun for the short amount of time that everybody was on it, but then you’re right every page you went to blaring music came on and everything was flashing and you went into a seizure, I mean it was ridiculous (laughter).

布拉德：我认为这可能是个好主意。 MySpace在每个人都花了很短的时间就很有趣，但是然后您说对了，您大喊大叫的音乐每一页都出现了，并且一切都闪烁着，您陷入了癫痫发作，我的意思是这很荒谬(笑)。

Patrick: Did this actually happen or is this figurative?

帕特里克(Patrick)：这实际上发生了吗？

Brad: I speak from experience. No, it’s figurative of course. But then when everyone started looking at Facebook it was like wow this looks so clean compared to what we’re used to seeing over at MySpace, so I think the fact that they didn’t allow that is the reason Facebook is as big as it is today.

布拉德：我从经验上讲。 不，这当然是具有象征意义的。 但是，当每个人都开始看Facebook时，哇，与我们过去在MySpace上看到的东西相比，这看起来真是太干净了，所以我认为他们不允许这样做的事实是Facebook如此庞大的原因是今天。

Stephan: You mean you don’t like twinkling star backgrounds? I mean come on.

斯蒂芬：你的意思是你不喜欢闪烁的星星背景？ 我的意思是

Brad: I can only handle so many dancing babies.

布拉德：我只能应付那么多跳舞的婴儿。

Patrick: If you buy into the fact that your profile should be a reflection of who you are then sparkling backgrounds are maybe who you are and who you want to be seen as. Whereas if you’re like me and you look at my MySpace profile, because I never really got into it, it’s just the very default things and one song and a little bit of information, and that’s about it. But Facebook, I don’t know, uniform individuality, is that a fancy phrase I just made up or is it an actual thing? Because that’s what it feels like.

帕特里克(Patrick)：如果您认为自己的个人资料应该反映出您是谁的事实，那么闪闪发光的背景可能就是您是谁以及您希望被视为谁。 而如果您像我一样，并且查看了我的MySpace个人资料，因为我从未真正接触过它，那只是最默认的内容，一首歌和一些信息，仅此而已。 但是，Facebook，我不知道，统一的个性，是我刚刚编造的一个花哨的短语，还是真实的东西？ 因为那就是它的感觉。

Kevin: I feel for the developers here who have crafted experiences and designed their apps around a certain interaction model, that their apps could expose themselves to the user’s social network through this small box on their profile page, and now the standard user interface for an app to advertise itself is an entire tab. And what I’m seeing at the moment is that a lot of my Facebook apps that I had installed I can now put them on tabs, but they are still designed to be about the size of a small box, and so now you have this whole tab on your profile and when you click it you just get this teeny, tiny bit of content at the top of the page. This is like a fundamental change in the user experience, the user interface standards for the Facebook API, and what’s this doing to their app ecosystem? Is this how long we can expect a platform to last and remain stable on the Web? It’s two years, and if I was now considering building a Facebook app would I have to do that understanding that Facebook could be completely different in two years time and it’s a moving target that I’m targeting?

凯文(Kevin)：对于在这里的开发人员来说，他们是根据特定的交互模型精心设计体验并设计了他们的应用程序，他们的应用程序可以通过个人资料页面上的这个小框暴露给用户的社交网络，现在是标准的用户界面。广告本身的应用程序是一个完整的标签。 我现在所看到的是，我已经安装了许多我的Facebook应用程序，现在可以将它们放在选项卡上，但是它们的设计尺寸仍然只有一个小盒子，因此现在您有了个人资料上的整个标签页，当您单击它时，您只会在页面顶部看到很小的内容。 这就像用户体验，Facebook API的用户界面标准发生了根本变化，这对他们的应用生态系统有何影响？ 我们能期望一个平台能够持续多久并在网络上保持稳定吗？ 已经两年了，如果我现在正在考虑构建一个Facebook应用程序，我是否必须做这样的理解，即Facebook可能会在两年后完全不同，而这正是我的目标？

Brad: Yeah, you said it right Kevin, this is going to force Facebook application developers to really rethink how their apps not only work but how they promote themselves, because I mean one of the primary focuses of any app is to get people to install it; you want as many people to install it as you can and send it around virally and share with their friends. Now that it’s kind of hidden on a tab and less noticeable and a lot less people are going to see it these developers are going to come up with more creative ways to get that content into your newsfeed to promote their app because there’s really no other way to do it. So I would expect to see a lot more kind of spammy looking kind of posts of the newsfeed and things like that.

布拉德(Brad)：是的，凯文(Kevin)说的没错，这将迫使Facebook应用程序开发人员真正重新考虑他们的应用程序不仅如何工作，而且如何自我提升，因为我的意思是任何应用程序的主要重点之一是让人们安装它; 您希望有尽可能多的人来安装它，并通过病毒发送它并与他们的朋友分享。 现在，它已经隐藏在选项卡上，并且不那么引人注目，并且越来越少的人会看到它，这些开发人员将想出更多创造性的方法来将内容添加到您的新闻提要中，以推广他们的应用程序，因为实际上没有其他方法去做吧。 因此，我希望看到更多类似新闻发布的垃圾邮件。

Patrick: Well, many bloggers out there use the TweetMeme Twitter re-tweet button on their blogs, myself included. Those days are numbered, let’s say, because Twitter has launched their own Tweet button and you can embed it on your blog today.

帕特里克(Patrick)：嗯，那里的许多博客作者都在他们的博客(包括我自己)上使用TweetMeme Twitter重推按钮。 可以说，那些日子已经过了，因为Twitter推出了自己的Tweet按钮，您可以将其嵌入到今天的博客中。

Kevin: They’ve gobbled up TweetMeme.

凯文：他们吞噬了TweetMeme。

Patrick: Yep. they’ve licensed the technology from TweetMeme basically, and TweetMeme, while it’s still online obviously and even growing through August, they’re now going to switch their focus to other endeavors and let Twitter, I guess understandably given the fact that competitively speaking Twitter will crush them based on their traffic alone and the link on their own website, so TweetMeme has just gracefully ceded that entire market to them. You can embed, like I said, the Twitter button from twitter.com/tweetbutton and it looks different from the TweetMeme button, pretty attractive, you can specify things like accounts that can be suggested to the user to follow after they’ve Tweeted the button. So yeah, what do you think?

帕特里克：是的 。 他们基本上已经从TweetMeme和TweetMeme获得了该技术的许可，虽然该技术显然仍然在线，甚至在八月份一直在增长，但现在他们将把重点转移到其他工作上，并让Twitter成为现实，鉴于竞争激烈的Twitter，我想可以理解只会根据他们的访问量和他们自己网站上的链接来粉碎他们，因此TweetMeme刚刚将整个市场割让给了他们。 就像我说的那样，您可以嵌入来自twitter.com/tweetbutton的Twitter按钮，它看起来与TweetMeme按钮不同，非常吸引人，您可以指定诸如帐户之类的内容，这些内容可以在用户发布推文后建议用户关注按钮。 是的，你怎么看？

Kevin: Well, this is the same thing that we saw happen with Bit.ly and the URL shorteners. There was this ecosystem of URL shorteners out there, there were ten of them that people used and suddenly overnight Twitter gave their blessing to Bit.ly, and just like that Bit.ly was the only game in town. And now we’re seeing the same thing with TweetMeme, I mean there are alternatives out there and one that I’ve recommended a lot is backtype.com; if you go to backtweets.com they have this BackTweets Pro service that you can sign up to and pay fifty bucks a month to monitor people talking about your content on Twitter, but they also had this free widget that was pretty much the same thing, this button that showed you how many times the URL of the current page had been Tweeted about and gave you a retweet button. And suddenly all of these competitors I think are going to slowly disappear because TweetMeme is where it’s at. On the surface this looks bad for TweetMeme even, but it looks like they’ve done a deal with Twitter where Twitter gets the tweet button technology, and TweetMeme is getting inside access to stuff that’s going to let them improve their service, it looks like they’re going to be partnering with Twitter to provide services based around the Twitter Firehose, this high performance API for accessing everything that is posted on Twitter in real time. So it should be exciting, I’m interested in seeing what the next chapter for TweetMeme looks like here now that they’ve handed over the Tweet button to Twitter, what is their business going to look like exactly?

凯文：嗯，这与我们在Bit.ly和URL缩短器中看到的一样。 那里有一个URL缩短器生态系统，有十个被人们使用，而Twitter一夜之间突然给了Bit.ly祝福，就像Bit.ly是城里唯一的游戏一样。 现在，我们在TweetMeme上看到了同样的事情，我的意思是，那里有替代品，我推荐的很多替代品是backtype.com ； 如果您访问backtweets.com，他们将提供BackTweets Pro服务，您可以注册并每月支付50美元，以监视人们在Twitter上谈论您的内容，但是他们也有这个免费的小部件，几乎是同一回事，此按钮向您显示当前页面的URL被推了多少次，并给了您一个转推按钮。 突然之间，我认为所有这些竞争者都将慢慢消失，因为TweetMeme就在这里。 从表面上看，这甚至对TweetMeme来说都是不好的，但是看起来他们已经与Twitter达成了交易，Twitter获得了tweet按钮技术，TweetMeme正在内部访问将使他们改善服务的内容。他们将与Twitter合作，以Twitter Firehose为基础提供服务，Firehose是一种高性能API，用于实时访问Twitter上发布的所有内容。 所以这应该令人兴奋，我很感兴趣，因为他们已经将Tweet按钮移交给了Twitter，TweetMeme的下一章看起来是什么样子，他们的业务将是什么样子？

Brad: I really like this, I mean I feel like the sharing or the Tweet button it feels like a service that should go hand in hand with Twitter rather than a third-party service, it feels like something they should offer; I’ve always thought that, now that they are doing it it’s great, I mean they’ve made it extremely easy to integrate, you drop like a line of JavaScript, you don’t even have to pass the URL, it does all that dynamically for you and it works, and it’s super easy, so you don’t have to be a hardcore developer to figure out how to integrate this. And they’ve also hooked it into their API, so if you are a hardcore developer you can integrate this however you want so you don’t have to use the provided code that they give you. So I’ve actually hooked this up on a few client sites, played around with it a little bit, hooked it up on my site, and I think it’s great, I really like how they did it.

布拉德：我真的很喜欢，我的意思是我觉得共享或Tweet按钮感觉像是应该与Twitter并驾齐驱的服务，而不是第三方服务，感觉就像他们应该提供的东西； 我一直以为，既然他们正在这样做，那真是太好了，我的意思是他们变得非常容易集成，您可以像一行JavaScript一样拖放，甚至不必传递URL，它可以完成所有工作动态地为您服务并且有效，而且超级简单，因此您不必成为一个顽固的开发人员就可以弄清楚如何集成它。 他们还将其挂接到他们的API中，因此，如果您是一名铁杆开发人员，则可以根据需要进行集成，因此您不必使用他们提供的代码。 所以我实际上已经将其连接到一些客户端站点上，进行了一些处理，然后将其连接到我的站点上，我认为这很棒，我真的很喜欢他们的工作方式。

Patrick: Yeah, I mean who wouldn’t want to embed something hosted by Twitter, you know, what’s a fail whale? They don’t seem to have any problems with that so why wouldn’t I want to embed something from them.

帕特里克：是的，我的意思是谁不想嵌入Twitter托管的东西，你知道，什么是失败的鲸鱼？ 他们似乎对此没有任何问题，所以我为什么不想要从他们身上嵌入一些东西。

Kevin: (laughs) Ah, Patrick, cynical as always. (laughter)

凯文：(笑)啊，帕特里克，一如既往地愤世嫉俗。 (笑声)

Stephan: Smart aleck.

史蒂芬：聪明的脖子。

Patrick: No, aw cynical? I do like this; it’s very nice, very slick. The one thing that jumped out to me, though, that I liked about some of the services I’m already using is that I have to use t.co, the Twitter URL shortener, I can’t use my bit.ly API, I can’t track that traffic anymore. I don’t like that.

帕特里克：不，愤世嫉俗吗？ 我喜欢这样 非常好，非常光滑。 但是，令我兴奋的一件事是，我喜欢已经使用的某些服务，因为我必须使用t.co(Twitter URL缩短器)，而我不能使用bit.ly API，我再也无法追踪该流量了。 我不喜欢

Kevin: I think it should still, the number of tweets that it counts includes URLs that have been shortened with other services, so that’s not an issue, but yeah, if you like your Bit.ly stats you’re not going to get them through Tweets made through this button.

凯文：我认为应该仍然如此，它所统计的推文数量包括已被其他服务缩短的URL，所以这不是问题，但是，是的，如果您喜欢Bit.ly的统计信息，就不会得到它们。通过此按钮发布的推文。

Patrick: Yeah, but there are some improvements like the following, you know, you can enter a couple of accounts and after they Tweet they’ll see “Here are some accounts we suggest that you follow,” so that’s a benefit.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，但是有一些改进，例如以下内容，您可以输入几个帐户，并在他们发推文后看到“我们建议您遵循一些帐户”，这是一个好处。

Kevin: Yeah. That’s really interesting to me because I think suddenly now blogging platforms like WordPress and other content management systems are going to be scrambling to include a field for all of their authors to put in their Twitter account because when someone clicks the Tweet button on a page you want to be able to suggest to them not only that they follow, say, the Twitter account for the website as a whole, but also maybe the Twitter account for the author of the particular piece of content that you clicked the Tweet button on.

凯文：是的。 这对我来说真的很有趣，因为我认为现在突然之间，像WordPress和其他内容管理系统这样的博客平台将争先恐后地为所有作者添加一个字段，以便将其放入Twitter帐户，因为当有人单击页面上的Tweet按钮时，希望不仅可以向他们建议他们遵循整个网站的Twitter帐户，而且还可以建议您单击了Tweet按钮的特定内容作者的Twitter帐户。

Stephan: Plugin idea Brad!

斯蒂芬：插件想法布拉德！

Kevin: Yeah, exactly, if it’s not already done, yeah, you want to suddenly be including the Twitter account of all of your blog authors in there so that can be integrated in there through the Tweet button. The race is on.

凯文：是的，确切地说，如果尚未完成，是的，您想突然在其中包括所有博客作者的Twitter帐户，以便可以通过“推”按钮将其集成到其中。 比赛开始了。

Adobe fonts are coming to the Web with Typekit, and this is another service just like TweetMeme that I feel like they’ve suddenly got a leg up on the competition through this unexpected announcement. Typekit hasn’t been the only player in the online fonts game, there have been a few competitors out there, but Typekit always seemed like the leader, and they have cemented that lead by partnering with Adobe. Suddenly all of these fonts that you’re used to getting on your system when you install Photoshop or Illustrator or any of the Creative Suite apps, all of these fonts are now coming to the Web, and this really closes a gap for me, this is something that I asked Jeffrey Veen, one of the co-founders of Typekit when they were first announcing their service. If you buy access to a font through Typekit you can certainly use it in your CSS on your website, but you can’t use it in Photoshop to do mockups for that website. And at least originally using it just on your development server to test your layout before it went live was something that wasn’t easily done either. And so Typekit while it was a revolutionary service it often meant that you had to find other ways to get the same fonts, access to them in development. But now by bringing the Adobe font library to the Web this is the set of fonts to some extent that many designers have been waiting for because these are the fonts that they’re used to, the fonts like Myriad, this is the default font in Adobe Illustrator, Myriad, is a beautiful font, and people will often just sort of start mocking stuff up with that font and then to be told that the new age of fonts on the Web is here but you can’t use any of those fonts that you’ve been using in your creative apps it was a problem, and that problem is now being solved. Adobe is going above and beyond here, guys, they’re not just converting over these fonts dumbly, they are going through them one by one, character by character, and hinting them for screen use. This has been a common criticism of web fonts in the early days was that the fonts that people were using were designed for print and they didn’t look so great on the Web, or on the screen, especially at smaller font sizes. And it looks Adobe is going to the trouble of updating their fonts one by one so that they also look good on the screen. So fonts like Adobe Garamond, Myriad, as I mentioned, Dominion, Cooper Black, all of these fonts are now available on Typekit with more to come. Guys, have you been holding off on embracing these web fonts?

Adobe字体通过Typekit进入网络，这是另一个服务，就像TweetMeme一样，我觉得通过这一意外公告，它们突然在竞争中脱颖而出。 Typekit并不是在线字体游戏中唯一的参与者，虽然有一些竞争对手，但是Typekit一直看起来像是领导者，他们通过与Adobe合作巩固了这一领先地位。 突然，当您安装Photoshop或Illustrator或任何Creative Suite应用程序时，习惯于在系统上使用的所有这些字体，所有这些字体现在都已发布到Web上，这确实为我消除了差距，我是Typekit的联合创始人之一Jeffrey Veen首次宣布服务时问的。 如果您通过Typekit购买了字体的访问权限，则当然可以在网站上CSS中使用它，但不能在Photoshop中使用该字体为该网站制作模型。 至少最初在开发服务器上仅使用它来测试您的布局，然后再发布它也是一件不容易的事情。 因此，虽然Typekit是一项革命性的服务，但它通常意味着您必须寻找其他方法来获得相同的字体，并在开发中使用它们。 但是现在通过将Adobe字体库引入网络，在某种程度上，这是许多设计师一直在等待的字体集，因为这些是他们惯用的字体，例如Myriad之类的字体，这是默认字体。 Adobe Illustrator Myriad是一种漂亮的字体，人们通常会开始用这种字体来模拟东西，然后被告知网络上字体的新时代已经来临，但是您不能使用其中任何一种字体您在创意应用程序中一直在使用它是一个问题，现在已经解决了该问题。 伙计们，Adobe正在超越这些领域，他们不仅仅是在愚蠢地转换这些字体，它们还在逐字符，逐字符地显示它们，并提示它们供屏幕使用。 在早期，对网络字体的普遍批评是人们使用的字体是为打印而设计的，它们在网络或屏幕上看起来并不那么好，尤其是较小的字体时。 而且看起来Adobe要逐一更新其字体，以便它们在屏幕上看起来也不错。 所以像我提到的Adobe Garamond，Myriad，Dominion，Cooper Black这样的字体，所有这些字体现在都可以在Typekit上使用，并且还会有更多的字体。 伙计们，您是否一直在拥抱这些网络字体？

Patrick: (chuckle) No. But I will say this is a cool service, and I just pooled through the pricing real quick and it looks like you can get access to all of the fonts released here for $49.99 a year as part of the Portfolio package. The personal one, $24.99, allows access to some but not all, so the $49.99 one per year is the one that you’d want if you want access to all of them. And this is an interesting service, I haven’t really looked too much at it, but let’s say you’re signed up with Portfolio, right, you have that package and you develop a site for a client, right, you have the license yourself, it’s yours. So you give that site to your client are they good or do they have to buy another license?

帕特里克：(笑)不。但是我会说这是一项很酷的服务，我只是快速汇总了实际价格，看来您可以每年以49.99美元的价格访问这里发布的所有字体，作为产品组合的一部分包。 个人的价格为24.99美元，允许访问部分但不是全部，因此，如果您想访问所有这些功能，则每年需要支付49.99美元，这是您想要的价格。 这是一项有趣的服务，我还没有真正研究它，但是，假设您已经注册了Portfolio，对，您拥有该软件包，并且为客户开发了一个网站，对，您拥有了许可证你自己，是你的。 因此，您将该站点提供给客户是他们的好客户，还是必须购买另一个许可证？

Kevin: The Typekit service, the license applies per site, so you buy the license for that particular client’s site and then the next site you have to develop you buy another license for that.

凯文： Typekit服务，许可证适用于每个站点，因此您要购买该特定客户站点的许可证，然后要开发的下一个站点则需要购买另一个许可证。

Patrick: Okay, the Portfolio package it says unlimited websites, so I guess that would give you free range.

帕特里克：好吧，“投资组合”软件包中包含无限的网站，所以我想这将为您提供免费的搜索范围。

Kevin: Ah, yeah, then you get this bundle that, yes, you apply your Portfolio package subscription to that site and, yeah, as long as you continue paying the bills your client continues getting the fonts.

凯文：是的，那么，您将获得这个捆绑包，是的，您可以将您的投资组合软件包订阅应用到该站点，是的，只要您继续支付帐单，客户就可以继续获取字体。

Patrick: Cool. That’s interesting. I guess if you’re as detailed as I am you’d probably want your own license, not to have your designer control it, but that’s very cool.

帕特里克：酷。 那很有意思。 我想如果您像我一样详细，您可能想要您自己的许可证，而不是让您的设计师来控制，但这很酷。

Kevin: Yeah, probably, but it becomes another bill you pay just like your web hosting, I would say, if you want to be independent of your designer.

凯文：是的，可能，但是如果您想独立于设计师，那将成为您要支付的另一笔费用，就像您的虚拟主机一样。

Patrick: The font hosting bill (laughs).

帕特里克：字体托管法案(笑)。

Kevin: But, hey, you can even try this stuff out for free. The Adobe Garamond font is included in their free trial plan, so if you are a particular fan of that, and that is a very nice font, it’s a serifed font, it’s a clean body font, so if you just want to give the main text paragraphs on your site a slightly different look from the everyday you can sign up for a free Typekit account and take advantage of Adobe Garamond. It’s a really nice service.

凯文：但是，嘿，您甚至可以免费试用这些东西。 Adobe Garamond字体包含在他们的免费试用计划中，因此，如果您是该字体的特别支持者，并且这是一种非常不错的字体，则它是一种衬线字体，它是纯净的主体字体，因此，如果您只想提供主要字体，您网站上的文字段落外观与您每天可以免费注册Typekit帐户并利用Adobe Garamond的外观略有不同。 这是一个非常好的服务。

Patrick: So the Techcrunch office has received an interesting package care of Microsoft, some markers, some crayons, some clay, sketch book, basically a complete art package. What was missing, though, was the website that that package promoted which was beautyoftheweb.com. When a Tech Crunch reporter, Jason Kincaid, went to visit the site it was down with a 401 error. Eventually, though, he discovered that this package was meant to promote the September 15th debut of IE9 beta.

帕特里克(Patrick)：因此Techcrunch办公室收到了微软的一份有趣的包裹 ，一些标记，一些蜡笔，一些黏土，素描本，基本上是一个完整的艺术品。 但是，缺少的是该软件包所推广的网站beautyoftheweb.com 。 当Tech Crunch记者Jason Kincaid访问该网站时，它出现了401错误，但发生故障。 最终，尽管如此，他发现该软件包旨在促进IE9 beta版9月15日的首次亮相。

Kevin: You know, Techcrunch, they have their style, and I was reading this story and this is the kind of story that makes me feel bad for Microsoft. Just this starting out by saying it was a sweaty guy on a bicycle that came and delivered this package, I mean is that really necessary? (Laughter)

凯文：你知道，Techcrunch，他们有自己的风格，我正在读这个故事，这种故事使我对微软感到难过。 刚开始时我说是一个汗流guy背的家伙来了，并送出了这个包裹，我的意思是真的有必要吗？ (笑声)

Brad: Yeah, sets the stage, set the mood here. (Laughter)

布拉德：是的，在舞台上，在这里设定心情。 (笑声)

Kevin: Let’s give Microsoft some credit here. This site, beautyoftheweb.com, which does now work even though it wasn’t working at the time it should have been for Techcrunch, it is a demo really of the <canvas> tag and what it can do; you go to beautyoftheweb.com and it invites you to find a secret word by typing letters, and those letters are arrayed on your screen, and I’ll give you a spoiler: the password you’re looking for is “native,” and as you type out the word native the puzzle pieces fly in and slowly make up this invitation in the middle of the screen. And credit to Microsoft this page is written in HTML5 using the <canvas> tag, the JavaScript that runs it has the fallback code for browsers that don’t support <canvas> tag like IE8, for example, so it works cross-browser, but it even includes HTML5 tags like <header> and <section>, things like that, so they’ve got the necessary the JavaScript code in there so that those HTML5 elements are styleable in Internet Explorer 8. They’ve gone out of their way to eat their own dog food here, whereas when I first landed on this page and saw the animated password form come up I thought, oh, here we go, I bet this is Silverlight, but it’s not, it’s <canvas>, it’s HTML5. They haven’t gone quite all the way with it, I do have some criticism, which is that this page is basically a blank page if you disable JavaScript on your browser, and there is no content really here for screen reader users, so it’s pretty inaccessible; if you land on this page on a screen reader you’ll hear it read out “unlocking the native web, type the letters below to unlock your invitation,” and that’s it. And there is no hint of what letters you should be typing or what it is you’re seeing in response to typing those letters.

凯文：让我们在这里给微软一些荣誉。 这个网站beautyoftheweb.com现在可以正常运行，即使它本来应该在Techcrunch上却没有运行，它实际上是<canvas>标签及其作用的演示。 您访问beautyoftheweb.com，它邀请您通过键入字母找到一个秘密单词，这些字母排列在屏幕上，我将给您一个破坏者：您要查找的密码是“本机”，并且当您键入“本机”一词时，拼图碎片飞进来，并在屏幕中间慢慢组成此邀请。 值得称赞的是，此页面使用<canvas>标签以HTML5编写，运行该JavaScriptJavaScript具有针对不支持<canvas>标签(例如IE8)的浏览器的后备代码，例如，它可以跨浏览器工作，但它甚至包括诸如<header>和<section>类HTML5标签，诸如此类，因此它们具有必需JavaScript代码，以便这些HTML5元素可在Internet Explorer 8中进行样式设置。在这里吃自己的狗食的方式，但是当我第一次登陆该页面并看到出现动画的密码表单时，我想，哦，到这里，我敢打赌这是Silverlight，但不是，它是<canvas> ， HTML5。 他们还没有完全解决问题，我确实有一些批评，那就是如果您禁用浏览器上JavaScript，则该页面基本上是空白页面，并且屏幕阅读器用户实际上没有任何内容，因此难以接近 如果您在屏幕阅读器上访问此页面，您将听到它读出“解锁本机网络，在下方键入字母以解锁邀请”，仅此而已。 而且没有提示您应该键入哪些字母，或者在键入这些字母时会看到什么。

So, the exciting news I suppose that Microsoft would want us to be talking about here is that Internet Explorer 9 beta is coming out on September 15th. So September 15th is that magical date when regular ordinary users may start hitting your websites using an IE9 browser, so the call should go out for you to start testing on the current developer release. But, you know there’s a reason Techcrunch can write snarky stories like this, and I feel like the reason is that Microsoft doesn’t know how to build AAA quality websites. They’ve clearly gone out of their way with this demo to try and build a top quality HTML5 page that will be impervious to criticism and yet they’ve still fallen short. I wonder, is Microsoft’s biggest problem when it comes to Internet Explorer that they don’t have any truly talented, passionate web developers in-house that are going to push this browser to put its best foot forward.

因此，我想微软希望我们在这里谈论的令人振奋的消息是Internet Explorer 9 Beta将于9月15日发布。 因此，9月15日是一般普通用户可能开始使用IE9浏览器访问您网站的一个奇妙的日子，因此电话应该打响，让您开始在当前开发人员版本上进行测试。 但是，您知道Techcrunch可以写这样的故事是有原因的，我觉得原因是Microsoft不知道如何构建AAA质量的网站。 They've clearly gone out of their way with this demo to try and build a top quality HTML5 page that will be impervious to criticism and yet they've still fallen short. I wonder, is Microsoft's biggest problem when it comes to Internet Explorer that they don't have any truly talented, passionate web developers in-house that are going to push this browser to put its best foot forward.

Brad: Well, you don’t want to know how long it took me to get to the word “Native,” there (laughter). It took way longer than it should have.

Brad: Well, you don't want to know how long it took me to get to the word “Native,” there (laughter). It took way longer than it should have.

Kevin: Yeah, me too, I stared at those letters for a long time before I came up with native, and I think I clicked the “skip intro” button, and then it shows you the answer and then I went back and typed it myself just to see what would happen.

Kevin: Yeah, me too, I stared at those letters for a long time before I came up with native, and I think I clicked the “skip intro” button, and then it shows you the answer and then I went back and typed it myself just to see what would happen.

Patrick: You know I agree with you about Techcrunch kind of, though, because when I saw this I thought well you know what, just donate art supplies to a school and call it a day. I don’t know, there’s an effort here, and maybe they didn’t take care of every last result, and I don’t know why that is, but let’s not just get on the bash-fest, I guess, of Internet Explorer, that’s far too easy.

Patrick: You know I agree with you about Techcrunch kind of, though, because when I saw this I thought well you know what, just donate art supplies to a school and call it a day. I don't know, there's an effort here, and maybe they didn't take care of every last result, and I don't know why that is, but let's not just get on the bash-fest, I guess, of Internet Explorer, that's far too easy.

Kevin: By all reports IE9 is shaping up to be a really good browser. The tech demos have been solid, not only have they added huge amounts of support for CSS3, HTML5, all of the stuff that developers are craving, but by all reports the browser is flying compared to previous versions. Internet Explorer 9 is going to be a lean, mean thing compared to the sluggish, bloated previous versions of Internet Explorer. We have yet to see what the user interface holds for end users, the focus has really been on the Web platform work, so I’m wondering how much of this September 15th release will unveil a new look and feel or a new user interface or whether they’re going to be sticking with what they set up in IE8. But it’s feeling like browsers, especially led by Google Chrome, have really been pushing forward a minimalist interpretation of what the user interface should be, and if Internet Explorer doesn’t get on that bandwagon they’re going to look more and more obsolete even though their rendering engine may be right up there with the others. Brad I know you’re a Chrome fan, could you ever see yourself going back to the toolbars of Internet Explorer?

Kevin: By all reports IE9 is shaping up to be a really good browser. The tech demos have been solid, not only have they added huge amounts of support for CSS3, HTML5, all of the stuff that developers are craving, but by all reports the browser is flying compared to previous versions. Internet Explorer 9 is going to be a lean, mean thing compared to the sluggish, bloated previous versions of Internet Explorer. We have yet to see what the user interface holds for end users, the focus has really been on the Web platform work, so I'm wondering how much of this September 15th release will unveil a new look and feel or a new user interface or whether they're going to be sticking with what they set up in IE8. But it's feeling like browsers, especially led by Google Chrome, have really been pushing forward a minimalist interpretation of what the user interface should be, and if Internet Explorer doesn't get on that bandwagon they're going to look more and more obsolete even though their rendering engine may be right up there with the others. Brad I know you're a Chrome fan, could you ever see yourself going back to the toolbars of Internet Explorer?

Brad: Um, it would take a lot. I mean I feel like any developer or designer, pretty much anybody that works on building websites in some facet, has a little bit of a hatred towards IE mainly just because of IE6, I mean 7 has its issues sure, 8’s obviously a lot better; 9, like you said, is shaping up to be great, but you know just when you hear the word Internet Explorer the first thing you think is, oh God, it’s just — and I don’t know what it’s going to take to get past that for me personally. If they come out with some groundbreaking feature that nothing else has I’m always open, I’ll give it a shot; I never thought I’d switch off of Firefox and I did, so you know, I try to keep an open mind when new versions come out.

Brad: Um, it would take a lot. I mean I feel like any developer or designer, pretty much anybody that works on building websites in some facet, has a little bit of a hatred towards IE mainly just because of IE6, I mean 7 has its issues sure, 8's obviously a lot better; 9, like you said, is shaping up to be great, but you know just when you hear the word Internet Explorer the first thing you think is, oh God, it's just — and I don't know what it's going to take to get past that for me personally. If they come out with some groundbreaking feature that nothing else has I'm always open, I'll give it a shot; I never thought I'd switch off of Firefox and I did, so you know, I try to keep an open mind when new versions come out.

Patrick: I know what it’ll take: Hello, this is Jim Smith over at Microsoft, is this Brad of Webdev Studios? We’re looking to have some development work done, can we pay you money? (Laughter)

Patrick: I know what it'll take: Hello, this is Jim Smith over at Microsoft, is this Brad of Webdev Studios? We're looking to have some development work done, can we pay you money? (笑声)

Kevin: Internet Explorer 9 with a $20.00 bonus payment to everyone who installs it. (Laughter)

Kevin: Internet Explorer 9 with a $20.00 bonus payment to everyone who installs it. (笑声)

Stephan: We’ll pay you to use the browser.

Stephan: We'll pay you to use the browser.

Patrick: Cash back rewards. Hey, don’t joke about that, Google with the AdSense platform paid those referrals as far as Firefox; they were all hooked in there, so maybe Microsoft needs to do something like that to incentivize publishers to promote IE again. I mean would that be a funny thing to see where a publisher was getting paid for downloads of Internet Explorer? I don’t know.

Patrick: Cash back rewards. Hey, don't joke about that, Google with the AdSense platform paid those referrals as far as Firefox; they were all hooked in there, so maybe Microsoft needs to do something like that to incentivize publishers to promote IE again. I mean would that be a funny thing to see where a publisher was getting paid for downloads of Internet Explorer? 我不知道。

Kevin: Yeah, they need an affiliate program.

Kevin: Yeah, they need an affiliate program.

Patrick: Yeah, exactly, take a page from the, I guess the Firefox book of how they caught up to Microsoft and go back to that kind of grassroots approach even if they do currently have the leadership role overall it’s declining, and maybe they need to take that approach of the underdog.

Patrick: Yeah, exactly, take a page from the, I guess the Firefox book of how they caught up to Microsoft and go back to that kind of grassroots approach even if they do currently have the leadership role overall it's declining, and maybe they need to take that approach of the underdog.

Kevin: SitePoint marketing manager Shayne Tilly has an infamous blog post on SitePoint from I guess it’s nearly a year ago now, and I think it was an update to a previous blog post where he was calling for the “inevitable death of Internet Explorer,” and he shows basically a graph of Internet Explorer market share declining as all of the others rise, and when you do that the Internet Explorer market share line is a surprisingly straight line downwards, and he’s just sort of extrapolated that line out and said, yeah, the year Internet Explorer dies is 2013, I think he said, at that rate. And obviously that got a few upset comments, but he’s sticking by it, and he was just telling me yesterday that he’s been updating the numbers for another year, and the line continues downward unabated. It will be interesting to see whether IE9 can make a difference.

Kevin: SitePoint marketing manager Shayne Tilly has an infamous blog post on SitePoint from I guess it's nearly a year ago now, and I think it was an update to a previous blog post where he was calling for the “inevitable death of Internet Explorer,” and he shows basically a graph of Internet Explorer market share declining as all of the others rise, and when you do that the Internet Explorer market share line is a surprisingly straight line downwards, and he's just sort of extrapolated that line out and said, yeah, the year Internet Explorer dies is 2013, I think he said, at that rate. And obviously that got a few upset comments, but he's sticking by it, and he was just telling me yesterday that he's been updating the numbers for another year, and the line continues downward unabated. It will be interesting to see whether IE9 can make a difference.

Patrick: What I want to know is what Shayne’s thinking, because haven’t we — I know I have heard before, I don’t know of the scientific numbers, but IE uses click more ads and maybe even spend more money than other users, so as a marketing guy here let’s think about this a little bit. I think we want those IE users and we want them to grow, no, I’m just kidding, but yeah, that’s what I have heard before so from a marketing perspective if you want to take that as being the more casual user, you know, that’s a reasonable claim to make I would say, and so they click more ads, but it’s just the way it is right now.

Patrick: What I want to know is what Shayne's thinking, because haven't we — I know I have heard before, I don't know of the scientific numbers, but IE uses click more ads and maybe even spend more money than other users, so as a marketing guy here let's think about this a little bit. I think we want those IE users and we want them to grow, no, I'm just kidding, but yeah, that's what I have heard before so from a marketing perspective if you want to take that as being the more casual user, you know, that's a reasonable claim to make I would say, and so they click more ads, but it's just the way it is right now.

Kevin: That sounds like a good marketing angle for the Microsoft affiliate program, “Marketers get more valuable visits to your site by getting your users to install Internet Explorer. And we’ll pay you twenty bucks.”

Kevin: That sounds like a good marketing angle for the Microsoft affiliate program, “Marketers get more valuable visits to your site by getting your users to install Internet Explorer. And we'll pay you twenty bucks.”

Patrick: This web page best viewed in IE9.

Patrick: This web page best viewed in IE9.

Kevin: If Microsoft would like some tips to build their next <canvas> HTML5 driven invitation page for their next browser beta they could do worse than visiting html5boilerplate.com. This is a site that I’ve seen tossed around for the past week or so, and it purports to give you a ZIP file that you can download and it contains everything you need as a starting point to build a modern, HTML5, standards compliant website. And depending on what type of developer you are this is either going to dazzle you or horrify you. You know, I’d like to consider myself across a lot of the things that belong in a brand new website these days, obviously I went to Microsoft’s invitation page and started picking holes in it, oh they didn’t do this, they didn’t do that, why didn’t they include this bit of code. And html5boilerplate.com seems like the ultimate expression of that, they have combined all of these nitpicks, these things that if you took your web development seriously you would include this line of code on every site you build, and they’ve put all of those lines of code together into this set of files that you can use as a starting point. And you can just scroll down the page and they have beautifully syntaxed highlighted versions of all of these code files complete with comments explaining what everything does, and man it amounts to a lot of code. I think you can hit page down 20 times before you get to the bottom of this code on a typical screen size.

Kevin: If Microsoft would like some tips to build their next <canvas> HTML5 driven invitation page for their next browser beta they could do worse than visiting html5boilerplate.com . This is a site that I've seen tossed around for the past week or so, and it purports to give you a ZIP file that you can download and it contains everything you need as a starting point to build a modern, HTML5, standards compliant website. And depending on what type of developer you are this is either going to dazzle you or horrify you. You know, I'd like to consider myself across a lot of the things that belong in a brand new website these days, obviously I went to Microsoft's invitation page and started picking holes in it, oh they didn't do this, they didn't do that, why didn't they include this bit of code. And html5boilerplate.com seems like the ultimate expression of that, they have combined all of these nitpicks, these things that if you took your web development seriously you would include this line of code on every site you build, and they've put all of those lines of code together into this set of files that you can use as a starting point. And you can just scroll down the page and they have beautifully syntaxed highlighted versions of all of these code files complete with comments explaining what everything does, and man it amounts to a lot of code. I think you can hit page down 20 times before you get to the bottom of this code on a typical screen size.

And this is just the code that you need to have before you have before you start writing your website, so all this will give you is an extremely standards compliant well-performing blank website, and your work starts from here.

And this is just the code that you need to have before you have before you start writing your website, so all this will give you is an extremely standards compliant well-performing blank website, and your work starts from here.

Stephan: The .htaccess page is probably the funniest one. It’s 183 lines, and a lot of it’s white space.

Stephan: The .htaccess page is probably the funniest one. It's 183 lines, and a lot of it's white space.

Kevin: (Laughs) Yeah, this is the, for your Apache server it tells Apache the special ways to treat this website when serving it. And, yeah, it’s 183 lines including comments of stuff. And this is code that does things like serve HTML5 video properly, it also serves cache headers so that any static file, so images, fonts, CSS, JavaScript, these types of files are all served to the browser with the message ‘you can cache this for a month’, ‘I don’t plan to change this for a month’, and what this does is increases the likelihood that these files are cached by your browser and increases the performance of your site. As a developer if you do want to change one of those files and have your users see those changes you need to refer to them with URLs with a query string that says last updated on this date, or something like that, which forces the browser to re-download the files that it would otherwise continue to cache for a month. But yeah, that’s just one example of the dozens of little tricks that are scattered throughout all of these files. And in many cases they are barely documented, like let me just have a look here, here’s one line of code in their CSS style sheet that says it normalizes monospace sizing, and then it’s got a link to Wikipedia regarding some sort of teletype style fix for Google Chrome. (Laughs) This is the ultimate in pedantry I think; yes, every single line of this does something useful. Do you need to understand all of this to be a web designer today? I remember the days when I sat my dad down and he wanted to build a simple web page that had a few family photos on it, I said well you start with an <html> tag and then you have a head tag, and when you’re done with the head tag you have a body tag, and here’s how you put images on a page. And in the space of half an hour he felt like he could build web pages for the real world. This mass of code is something that you’ve got to be really dedicated to the science of web development in order to even get through reading the thing, let alone using it on all your projects. Is this making web design too difficult is what I’m saying?

Kevin: (Laughs) Yeah, this is the, for your Apache server it tells Apache the special ways to treat this website when serving it. And, yeah, it's 183 lines including comments of stuff. And this is code that does things like serve HTML5 video properly, it also serves cache headers so that any static file, so images, fonts, CSS, JavaScript, these types of files are all served to the browser with the message 'you can cache this for a month', 'I don't plan to change this for a month', and what this does is increases the likelihood that these files are cached by your browser and increases the performance of your site. As a developer if you do want to change one of those files and have your users see those changes you need to refer to them with URLs with a query string that says last updated on this date, or something like that, which forces the browser to re-download the files that it would otherwise continue to cache for a month. But yeah, that's just one example of the dozens of little tricks that are scattered throughout all of these files. And in many cases they are barely documented, like let me just have a look here, here's one line of code in their CSS style sheet that says it normalizes monospace sizing, and then it's got a link to Wikipedia regarding some sort of teletype style fix for Google Chrome. (Laughs) This is the ultimate in pedantry I think; yes, every single line of this does something useful. Do you need to understand all of this to be a web designer today? I remember the days when I sat my dad down and he wanted to build a simple web page that had a few family photos on it, I said well you start with an <html> tag and then you have a head tag, and when you're done with the head tag you have a body tag, and here's how you put images on a page. And in the space of half an hour he felt like he could build web pages for the real world. This mass of code is something that you've got to be really dedicated to the science of web development in order to even get through reading the thing, let alone using it on all your projects. Is this making web design too difficult is what I'm saying?

Stephan: I don’t know if it’s making it difficult. I think it’s making it a little intimidating.

Stephan: I don't know if it's making it difficult. I think it's making it a little intimidating.

Kevin: Yeah. Patrick is this the nail in the coffin that you read this and you decide that’s it, I am never writing code ever again?

凯文：是的。 Patrick is this the nail in the coffin that you read this and you decide that's it, I am never writing code ever again?

Patrick: I love how I’m the go-to. I know my place on this show for that sort of stuff. (Laughter) You know I have to say with my limited knowledge I kind of already knew this was the case which is why I just don’t even try to get into this stuff. I almost think that was the purpose here. I almost think that the purpose here was to create this to say, you know what, here is everything, here’s every last thing that we can throw at this, okay, this is every last detail, every single thing we can do. It is a little pedantic maybe for some, but that’s the goal I think is for it to be that detailed, that specific, that pedantic, if you choose to describe it in that way, to say here it is, it’s all in front of you, it’s all on the table. And I don’t really see necessarily how that’s a bad thing, I guess, I think it might serve to educate some people; it might serve as a good starting point, a good template for people to use. You don’t have to use it, it’s better than Geocities homepage builder, right, so just look at this as sort of homepage builder for that HTML5 loving web designer.

Patrick: I love how I'm the go-to. I know my place on this show for that sort of stuff. (Laughter) You know I have to say with my limited knowledge I kind of already knew this was the case which is why I just don't even try to get into this stuff. I almost think that was the purpose here. I almost think that the purpose here was to create this to say, you know what, here is everything, here's every last thing that we can throw at this, okay, this is every last detail, every single thing we can do. It is a little pedantic maybe for some, but that's the goal I think is for it to be that detailed, that specific, that pedantic, if you choose to describe it in that way, to say here it is, it's all in front of you, it's all on the table. And I don't really see necessarily how that's a bad thing, I guess, I think it might serve to educate some people; it might serve as a good starting point, a good template for people to use. You don't have to use it, it's better than Geocities homepage builder, right, so just look at this as sort of homepage builder for that HTML5 loving web designer.

Kevin: Stephan you describe yourself as a recovering programmer from time to time (laughs), is this your nemesis? Is this the kind of code that makes you never want to be a programmer again?

Kevin: Stephan you describe yourself as a recovering programmer from time to time (laughs), is this your nemesis? Is this the kind of code that makes you never want to be a programmer again?

Stephan: Yeah, I mean I wouldn’t say never again, but this is pretty intimidating for someone who hasn’t touched some of this stuff. I mean I can’t imagine coming in here and looking at, one, the .htaccess file without understanding anything about Apache is really intimidating. And the CSS is blank for the most part, but it’s a lot of stuff, I mean there’s a lot of stuff in the CSS that I mean I’ll be honest, I don’t understand all of it, but I don’t do CSS all the time, so to me it’s a little overwhelming and I feel like I’d have to go in, and maybe Patrick’s right that I would have to go and do some serious reading to really get into the CSS in this thing which is probably a good thing, I need to get back into it.

Stephan: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't say never again, but this is pretty intimidating for someone who hasn't touched some of this stuff. I mean I can't imagine coming in here and looking at, one, the .htaccess file without understanding anything about Apache is really intimidating. And the CSS is blank for the most part, but it's a lot of stuff, I mean there's a lot of stuff in the CSS that I mean I'll be honest, I don't understand all of it, but I don't do CSS all the time, so to me it's a little overwhelming and I feel like I'd have to go in, and maybe Patrick's right that I would have to go and do some serious reading to really get into the CSS in this thing which is probably a good thing, I need to get back into it.

Brad: Yeah, this is intimidating for someone like me that does this on a daily basis; I mean there’s a lot of stuff here. But, having said that I think it’s a great reference, I mean there’s things in here we don’t use on websites, but it’s interesting to see if this is something that should be in there, and maybe we’ll do some research and see if it makes sense. I mean going as detailed as having an apple-touch-icon link in your header, stuff like that is very kind of obscure, but I think it’s kind of neat, I’m anxious to kind of take this download the stripped out version which gets rid of all those comments and slap it on a WordPress team and see if it is truly a great starting point or if it’s just more than what’s needed I should say. So I don’t know; you know I eat code for breakfast so this is kind of cool to me.

Brad: Yeah, this is intimidating for someone like me that does this on a daily basis; I mean there's a lot of stuff here. But, having said that I think it's a great reference, I mean there's things in here we don't use on websites, but it's interesting to see if this is something that should be in there, and maybe we'll do some research and see if it makes sense. I mean going as detailed as having an apple-touch-icon link in your header, stuff like that is very kind of obscure, but I think it's kind of neat, I'm anxious to kind of take this download the stripped out version which gets rid of all those comments and slap it on a WordPress team and see if it is truly a great starting point or if it's just more than what's needed I should say. So I don't know; you know I eat code for breakfast so this is kind of cool to me.

Kevin: Some of the cross domain stuff in there is going a bit far for me, and it’s some of the most intimidating stuff when there’s a comment in — there’s this crossdomain.xml file, which is a file that a typical web developer if you haven’t done any hardcore JavaScript you will have never even seen a file like this before and you won’t even know what it has to do with. And there’s a comment in that file that says “If you host a crossdomain.xml file with allow access from domain = * and don’t understand all of the points described here, you probably have a nasty security vulnerability.”

Kevin: Some of the cross domain stuff in there is going a bit far for me, and it's some of the most intimidating stuff when there's a comment in — there's this crossdomain.xml file, which is a file that a typical web developer if you haven't done any hardcore JavaScript you will have never even seen a file like this before and you won't even know what it has to do with. And there's a comment in that file that says “If you host a crossdomain.xml file with allow access from domain = * and don't understand all of the points described here, you probably have a nasty security vulnerability.”

Stephan: But then they have the line in the code.

Stephan: But then they have the line in the code.

Kevin: Yeah, and then they have the line, so you’re whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, does that mean that out of the box this code is a nasty security vulnerability? This is the stuff that’s going to scare people away and go oh, oh, oh okay, um; I don’t think I can do this. It’s a strange duality, you land at the site and it says it’s going to give you “A rock solid default for HTML5 awesome!” and “why is it awesome” and “why is it awesomer,” and “future awesome coming soon.” It sets you out to get all excited about this and then kind of beats you over the head with it. I would have liked to have seen— You know every one of these files, let alone every one of these files, every line in these files, it feels like you could have a whole article written about it explaining it. And if you went to the trouble of reading every one of those articles you would have a really solid foundation in web development. Maybe that’s a job for someone to do is to document all this stuff in detail.

Kevin: Yeah, and then they have the line, so you're whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, does that mean that out of the box this code is a nasty security vulnerability? This is the stuff that's going to scare people away and go oh, oh, oh okay, um; I don't think I can do this. It's a strange duality, you land at the site and it says it's going to give you “A rock solid default for HTML5 awesome!” and “why is it awesome” and “why is it awesomer,” and “future awesome coming soon.” It sets you out to get all excited about this and then kind of beats you over the head with it. I would have liked to have seen— You know every one of these files, let alone every one of these files, every line in these files, it feels like you could have a whole article written about it explaining it. And if you went to the trouble of reading every one of those articles you would have a really solid foundation in web development. Maybe that's a job for someone to do is to document all this stuff in detail.

Patrick: SitePoint! Get a few authors on that, stat.

Patrick: SitePoint! Get a few authors on that, stat.

Kevin: Yeah, just the HTML5 boilerplate book I could see it, I could see it, and we might be talking about that later at the office today. One last story before we close off here and that’s the jQuery Mobile Project. This is something John Resig, the creator of the jQuery Library, has been talking about on the conference circuit for a few months now, but it seems like they’re finally ready to do it. He’s been researching whether it’s doable, and now they’ve announced that they’re going to do it. Rather than develop a whole new JavaScript library just for mobile browsers, they are going to add support for mobile browsers to the existing jQuery library, they think they are able to enhance jQuery with support for mobile browsers without harming it as the top library for desktop browsers. And then on top of that once they’ve done that work they’re going to build a user interface widget toolkit for mobile phone browsers so that you can build these web apps for iPhones and things like that using jQuery, and it’s really exciting. It will be a while yet before they have something that’s really practical to use, but they’ve got some big names behind them supporting them, they’ve got Palm with their webOS platform, they’ve got Mozilla, who are working on Mobile Firefox, and the Filament Group which is one of the big names behind the jQuery UI library for desktop browsers is supporting the development of this as well. What really caught my eye about this story, though, was their chart showing— the Mobile Graded Browser Support chart which lists all of the major mobile phone smartphone browsers and the level of support they believe that they can give to them in this upcoming library. And if you thought supporting desktop browsers was difficult, well, take a look at this chart. In some ways it is less expansive than I would have expected, but I think it’s just because they have limited themselves really to modern smartphones.

Kevin: Yeah, just the HTML5 boilerplate book I could see it, I could see it, and we might be talking about that later at the office today. One last story before we close off here and that's the jQuery Mobile Project. This is something John Resig, the creator of the jQuery Library, has been talking about on the conference circuit for a few months now, but it seems like they're finally ready to do it. He's been researching whether it's doable, and now they've announced that they're going to do it. Rather than develop a whole new JavaScript library just for mobile browsers, they are going to add support for mobile browsers to the existing jQuery library, they think they are able to enhance jQuery with support for mobile browsers without harming it as the top library for desktop browsers. And then on top of that once they've done that work they're going to build a user interface widget toolkit for mobile phone browsers so that you can build these web apps for iPhones and things like that using jQuery, and it's really exciting. It will be a while yet before they have something that's really practical to use, but they've got some big names behind them supporting them, they've got Palm with their webOS platform, they've got Mozilla, who are working on Mobile Firefox, and the Filament Group which is one of the big names behind the jQuery UI library for desktop browsers is supporting the development of this as well. What really caught my eye about this story, though, was their chart showing— the Mobile Graded Browser Support chart which lists all of the major mobile phone smartphone browsers and the level of support they believe that they can give to them in this upcoming library. And if you thought supporting desktop browsers was difficult, well, take a look at this chart. In some ways it is less expansive than I would have expected, but I think it's just because they have limited themselves really to modern smartphones.

Brad: I’m glad I’m not doing this. You know we develop for five or six different browsers and some different versions, but this is insane, you’re talking, what, eight different mobile browsers on 10 to 15 different platforms, I mean multiple versions, and I mean it’s crazy. And it’s being developed at such a fast pace, and this is something we’ve talked about on some of the previous episodes, how the Mobile Web is still so young compared to the regular Internet that these browsers and new versions of the operating systems and the software they’re running is being developed so fast that it’s almost impossible for developers to keep up because it’s evolving so quickly. So it’s certainly an interesting project, the first thing I thought about when I read this is something that you mentioned, Kevin, a few episodes back about how the Web isn’t really built for mobile especially with the drag and drop type of stuff. And I think it was with Flash and the iPhone topic that we talked about, so I’m curious because a lot of the jQuery elements that I’ve seen on websites I wonder how well they would work on a mobile site if they actually worked how easy would it be to kind of drag down a menu or use some of the drag and drop features. Some of it makes sense, but some of it I’m not sure would work at all, so.

Brad: I'm glad I'm not doing this. You know we develop for five or six different browsers and some different versions, but this is insane, you're talking, what, eight different mobile browsers on 10 to 15 different platforms, I mean multiple versions, and I mean it's crazy. And it's being developed at such a fast pace, and this is something we've talked about on some of the previous episodes, how the Mobile Web is still so young compared to the regular Internet that these browsers and new versions of the operating systems and the software they're running is being developed so fast that it's almost impossible for developers to keep up because it's evolving so quickly. So it's certainly an interesting project, the first thing I thought about when I read this is something that you mentioned, Kevin, a few episodes back about how the Web isn't really built for mobile especially with the drag and drop type of stuff. And I think it was with Flash and the iPhone topic that we talked about, so I'm curious because a lot of the jQuery elements that I've seen on websites I wonder how well they would work on a mobile site if they actually worked how easy would it be to kind of drag down a menu or use some of the drag and drop features. Some of it makes sense, but some of it I'm not sure would work at all, so.

Kevin: Yeah, I think that’s what we’re going to be seeing happen here because right now it really doesn’t work very well at all. I know Google Analytics, for example, is a very JavaScript heavy web application that does not work at all in mobile smartphone browsers, and we’re talking even on Apple’s iPad it is virtually unusable, not just because they use Flash to display graphs, but as soon as you get into customizing a report in Google Analytics the user interface is all about dragging things from the left side to the right side and dragging them up and down in the order you want, and none of that works in a touch-based user interface. And so the work that jQuery is going to be doing on their library here is really to bring those touch user interaction events into the library as first-class citizens, and then building widgets that respond to those types of events just as well as desktop-like click and drag events that you get from desktop browsers. And so, yeah, that’s where I think a lot of the work is here. Now that they’ve done this survey of the landscape it seems like you can read this graph and see they’ve made some decisions. For example, they’ve decided Opera Mini, they’re not going to be supporting; Opera Mini is entirely marked as a C grade browser which is to say it is an extremely low-quality browser with high market share. To some extent that’s a rough judgment on Opera Mini because really that browser is designed to be very simple, and it has almost no JavaScript support whatsoever by design, it’s sort of designed to give you a static, non-interactive view of the Web, but the speed increase and the bandwidth savings you get from that is kind of the point of that browser, so I’m not sure I would’ve even put Opera Mini in this chart, but nevertheless it shows there so users can see what to expect. Opera Mobile, however, their first class, fully interactive browser for smartphones, it looks like it hasn’t been very good right up to version 9.5, but the version 10, which is out for Symbian Series 60 phones and coming soon on Android and Windows Mobile 7, that one’s looking pretty good, and it looks like they do plan to support that. And then there’s the whole native column, which I think is shorthand for WebKit because all of these phones that have native browsers marked A-grade here are the same phones that tend to use WebKit. So those seem to be the two browsers they’re going to be mainly supporting is Opera Mobile 10 and WebKit, and if you’re lucky enough to have a smartphone with one of those browsers I guess towards the end of this year you can expect to start seeing rich websites built with jQuery that have full support for touch interaction. It’s exciting; it’s really ambitious. I agree with you Brad, I enjoy writing JavaScript, but I am glad this isn’t my job to make this work. And so kudos to the jQuery Project for taking on what is obviously a difficult problem.

Kevin: Yeah, I think that's what we're going to be seeing happen here because right now it really doesn't work very well at all. I know Google Analytics, for example, is a very JavaScript heavy web application that does not work at all in mobile smartphone browsers, and we're talking even on Apple's iPad it is virtually unusable, not just because they use Flash to display graphs, but as soon as you get into customizing a report in Google Analytics the user interface is all about dragging things from the left side to the right side and dragging them up and down in the order you want, and none of that works in a touch-based user interface. And so the work that jQuery is going to be doing on their library here is really to bring those touch user interaction events into the library as first-class citizens, and then building widgets that respond to those types of events just as well as desktop-like click and drag events that you get from desktop browsers. And so, yeah, that's where I think a lot of the work is here. Now that they've done this survey of the landscape it seems like you can read this graph and see they've made some decisions. For example, they've decided Opera Mini, they're not going to be supporting; Opera Mini is entirely marked as a C grade browser which is to say it is an extremely low-quality browser with high market share. To some extent that's a rough judgment on Opera Mini because really that browser is designed to be very simple, and it has almost no JavaScript support whatsoever by design, it's sort of designed to give you a static, non-interactive view of the Web, but the speed increase and the bandwidth savings you get from that is kind of the point of that browser, so I'm not sure I would've even put Opera Mini in this chart, but nevertheless it shows there so users can see what to expect. Opera Mobile, however, their first class, fully interactive browser for smartphones, it looks like it hasn't been very good right up to version 9.5, but the version 10, which is out for Symbian Series 60 phones and coming soon on Android and Windows Mobile 7, that one's looking pretty good, and it looks like they do plan to support that. And then there's the whole native column, which I think is shorthand for WebKit because all of these phones that have native browsers marked A-grade here are the same phones that tend to use WebKit. So those seem to be the two browsers they're going to be mainly supporting is Opera Mobile 10 and WebKit, and if you're lucky enough to have a smartphone with one of those browsers I guess towards the end of this year you can expect to start seeing rich websites built with jQuery that have full support for touch interaction. It's exciting; it's really ambitious. I agree with you Brad, I enjoy writing JavaScript, but I am glad this isn't my job to make this work. And so kudos to the jQuery Project for taking on what is obviously a difficult problem.

Before we get to our host spotlights I wanted to go through a piece of listener feedback that dedicated podcast listener powerpotatoe sent through in response to Podcast #73, our last news show. Guys did you check out this big comment on the blog?

Before we get to our host spotlights I wanted to go through a piece of listener feedback that dedicated podcast listener powerpotatoe sent through in response to Podcast #73, our last news show. Guys did you check out this big comment on the blog?

Patrick: I did.

帕特里克：我做到了。

Stephan: Yep.

斯蒂芬：是的 。

Kevin: So, let me just run through it here, you guys can give your quick reactions to powerpotatoe’s thoughts here. We were talking about validation and whether it is still relevant, powerpotatoe says, “I still use the W3C validators mainly for troubleshooting. If something is not working in the code I’ll run it through a validator and check for any typing mistakes or other human errors. I once as a very young developer thought it cool to post the validator icons on my sites proving I was a master at web standards. But then I realized that running a validation for the whole site and adding the icons to each page was not worth the effort.” Brad what do you think, validation?

Kevin: So, let me just run through it here, you guys can give your quick reactions to powerpotatoe's thoughts here. We were talking about validation and whether it is still relevant, powerpotatoe says, “I still use the W3C validators mainly for troubleshooting. If something is not working in the code I'll run it through a validator and check for any typing mistakes or other human errors. I once as a very young developer thought it cool to post the validator icons on my sites proving I was a master at web standards. But then I realized that running a validation for the whole site and adding the icons to each page was not worth the effort.” Brad what do you think, validation?

Brad: Yeah, I agree, I think it’s in the long run it’s probably not worth the effort. You’re going to be spending a lot more work than it’s worth to validate every page across your site. I used to use it a lot more when I was younger too just so I could talk about it a few years ago, so I’d certainly agree with that point.

Brad: Yeah, I agree, I think it's in the long run it's probably not worth the effort. You're going to be spending a lot more work than it's worth to validate every page across your site. I used to use it a lot more when I was younger too just so I could talk about it a few years ago, so I'd certainly agree with that point.

Patrick: Yeah, I don’t think you were alone. I wouldn’t be surprised if SitePoint or Webmasterbase or Webmaster-Resources at one point had those icons too.

Patrick: Yeah, I don't think you were alone. I wouldn't be surprised if SitePoint or Webmasterbase or Webmaster-Resources at one point had those icons too.

Kevin: Yeah, definitely. Powerpotatoe goes on to talk about paywalls. He says, “I have yet to pay for any service I use on the Web,” which that is a big call. I don’t know, I think even most people by now have put their credit card into some sort of website I would think. In any case he says, “In terms for news it makes sense to me to pay for a printed newspaper, but I feel taken advantage of if I have to pay for the same content online. This is due to an internet spoiledness, web content has been free since the beginning mostly. Take SitePoint, for example, if I had to pay to access the blogs, articles, or this podcast, I would quickly move on.” Oh, you’re crushing our dreams powerpotatoe.

凯文：是的，当然。 Powerpotatoe goes on to talk about paywalls. He says, “I have yet to pay for any service I use on the Web,” which that is a big call. I don't know, I think even most people by now have put their credit card into some sort of website I would think. In any case he says, “In terms for news it makes sense to me to pay for a printed newspaper, but I feel taken advantage of if I have to pay for the same content online. This is due to an internet spoiledness, web content has been free since the beginning mostly. Take SitePoint, for example, if I had to pay to access the blogs, articles, or this podcast, I would quickly move on.” Oh, you're crushing our dreams powerpotatoe.

Patrick: There’s our model. Aw.

Patrick: There's our model. w

Kevin: (Laughs) “Even knowing the benefit of this site for me I do not think I would stick around if I had to pay. However, every time a new book comes out I take a look at my budget to see if I can afford the purchase. I will pay for the books because I do not consider them a part of the site content, rather they are another product of SitePoint.” Patrick this goes back to some of the stuff you were talking about during that show, right?

Kevin: (Laughs) “Even knowing the benefit of this site for me I do not think I would stick around if I had to pay. However, every time a new book comes out I take a look at my budget to see if I can afford the purchase. I will pay for the books because I do not consider them a part of the site content, rather they are another product of SitePoint.” Patrick this goes back to some of the stuff you were talking about during that show, right?

Patrick: It’s the web publisher challenge because you have the paid newspapers, they have costs, paper, ink, printing, etcetera, but so does the Web; servers, hosting, domain names, etcetera. So, how do you get over that? I think what ESPN did, like we mentioned a couple of episodes ago, was a good example of paying for premium content. And like I told powerpotatoe in the comment thread I think when it comes to revenues strategies there’s one simple truth: that everyone wants to make as much money as they possibly can in a manner that’s appropriate for them. So if anyone has an idea everyone’s ready to listen and jump on it, but you get money in one of two places: either you get it from the people who consume your stuff, or you get it from the people who want to reach those people.

Patrick: It's the web publisher challenge because you have the paid newspapers, they have costs, paper, ink, printing, etcetera, but so does the Web; servers, hosting, domain names, etcetera. So, how do you get over that? I think what ESPN did, like we mentioned a couple of episodes ago, was a good example of paying for premium content. And like I told powerpotatoe in the comment thread I think when it comes to revenues strategies there's one simple truth: that everyone wants to make as much money as they possibly can in a manner that's appropriate for them. So if anyone has an idea everyone's ready to listen and jump on it, but you get money in one of two places: either you get it from the people who consume your stuff, or you get it from the people who want to reach those people.

Kevin: Powerpotatoe goes on to talk about advertising and how he would love to see alternative revenue models work on the Web. I encourage you, listener, to head over to sitepoint.com/podcast and chime in on that comment thread; it’s a really good discussion. And that is it guys, let’s dive into our host spotlights, Brad?

Kevin: Powerpotatoe goes on to talk about advertising and how he would love to see alternative revenue models work on the Web. I encourage you, listener, to head over to sitepoint.com/podcast and chime in on that comment thread; it's a really good discussion. And that is it guys, let's dive into our host spotlights, Brad?

Brad: Yes, well somebody had a birthday and I wanted to make sure I mentioned that, and that somebody is … Internet Explorer (laughter).

Brad: Yes, well somebody had a birthday and I wanted to make sure I mentioned that, and that somebody is … Internet Explorer (laughter).

Patrick: Oh oh oh. I was like, did I forget? Was it Kevin’s birthday?

Patrick: Oh oh oh. I was like, did I forget? Was it Kevin's birthday?

Brad: Yeah, Internet Explorer actually turned 15 just a few days ago on August 16th. Internet Explorer version 1 debuted on August 16th, 1995; can you believe it’s been that long?

Brad: Yeah, Internet Explorer actually turned 15 just a few days ago on August 16th. Internet Explorer version 1 debuted on August 16th, 1995; can you believe it's been that long?

Kevin: Say what you will about Internet Explorer, for a piece of code to be running, and not only be running but still the most used browser on the Web, 15 years later is a remarkable achievement.

Kevin: Say what you will about Internet Explorer, for a piece of code to be running, and not only be running but still the most used browser on the Web, 15 years later is a remarkable achievement.

Brad: Yeah, I would agree, whether you love it or hate it I think we can all agree that Internet Explorer kind of helped launch the Internet into the mainstream, it really made it accessible, easy to use, and you know, whether like I said you love it or hate it today we can at least respect that it did help shape what we all know and love, so happy birthday Internet Explorer.

Brad: Yeah, I would agree, whether you love it or hate it I think we can all agree that Internet Explorer kind of helped launch the Internet into the mainstream, it really made it accessible, easy to use, and you know, whether like I said you love it or hate it today we can at least respect that it did help shape what we all know and love, so happy birthday Internet Explorer.

Kevin: Happy birthday.

Kevin: Happy birthday.

Kevin: My host spotlight is a big article called HTML Sanitisation: The Devil’s In The Details (And The Vulnerabilities). This is a must read if you are a PHP developer, especially if you have built or are considering building a site where users can type in HTML code that will be displayed to other users on that site. This is where you need an HTML sanitization library, certainly if you are thinking of writing one yourself reading this article will make you think twice and then throw that idea right out the window. It is a delicate science, and HTML can contain all sorts of dangerous things that you don’t necessarily want people to post on your site, not the least of which is JavaScript code that can be the source of cross-site scripting vulnerabilities. So in this article the author has gone through and surveyed the four most eligible HTML5 sanitization libraries, these libraries that you can feed it a piece of HTML code and in theory it spits out a version of that code that is safe for you to publish on your site. And he finds frightening vulnerabilities in at least two of them, the third one is built into WordPress, and he was able to find vulnerabilities which were then fixed in WordPress 3.0.1, but it is interesting nevertheless to see that such a long maintained and heavily used library can still have a vulnerability of this type in it. And then the last one, HTML Purifier, I’ll give you a spoiler now, is the only one he recommends as a rock solid solution for this. But in general if you can get away with using some other formatting language like BBcode, which is common on forums, or Markdown which is common in many blogging platforms, these are generally better solutions than risking HTML, but if you have to use HTML you definitely want to read this article so you know what you’re getting into. Patrick?

Kevin: My host spotlight is a big article called HTML Sanitisation: The Devil's In The Details (And The Vulnerabilities) . This is a must read if you are a PHP developer, especially if you have built or are considering building a site where users can type in HTML code that will be displayed to other users on that site. This is where you need an HTML sanitization library, certainly if you are thinking of writing one yourself reading this article will make you think twice and then throw that idea right out the window. It is a delicate science, and HTML can contain all sorts of dangerous things that you don't necessarily want people to post on your site, not the least of which is JavaScript code that can be the source of cross-site scripting vulnerabilities. So in this article the author has gone through and surveyed the four most eligible HTML5 sanitization libraries, these libraries that you can feed it a piece of HTML code and in theory it spits out a version of that code that is safe for you to publish on your site. And he finds frightening vulnerabilities in at least two of them, the third one is built into WordPress, and he was able to find vulnerabilities which were then fixed in WordPress 3.0.1, but it is interesting nevertheless to see that such a long maintained and heavily used library can still have a vulnerability of this type in it. And then the last one, HTML Purifier, I'll give you a spoiler now, is the only one he recommends as a rock solid solution for this. But in general if you can get away with using some other formatting language like BBcode, which is common on forums, or Markdown which is common in many blogging platforms, these are generally better solutions than risking HTML, but if you have to use HTML you definitely want to read this article so you know what you're getting into. Patrick?

Patrick: My spotlight is a video that’s part of collegehumor.com’s Bleep Bloop series which focuses on video games primarily, but this one is for a product called AR Drone, and it’s called by the company The Flying Video Game; ardrone.parrot, like the bird, .com, and it is the first Quadra Copter that can be controlled by an iPhone/iPod touch/iPad, so wrap your brain all the way around that because I’m not into that sort of robotic stuff, but it was really cool to see this four blade thing flying in the air and being controlled by an iPod or an iPhone or an iPad, so I definitely think it’s a product for our listener base.

Patrick: My spotlight is a video that's part of collegehumor.com's Bleep Bloop series which focuses on video games primarily, but this one is for a product called AR Drone , and it's called by the company The Flying Video Game; ardrone.parrot, like the bird, .com, and it is the first Quadra Copter that can be controlled by an iPhone/iPod touch/iPad, so wrap your brain all the way around that because I'm not into that sort of robotic stuff, but it was really cool to see this four blade thing flying in the air and being controlled by an iPod or an iPhone or an iPad, so I definitely think it's a product for our listener base.

Kevin: This is one of those products that I was afraid it was going to be Vaporware, like it did the rounds about a year ago, they were sort of demo-ing it and they said you’ll be able to — we’ll be opening up pre-orders at some point next year. And you can now finally pre-order this thing, and I don’t know the exact price but I remember checking and going, wow, that is surprisingly affordable.

Kevin: This is one of those products that I was afraid it was going to be Vaporware, like it did the rounds about a year ago, they were sort of demo-ing it and they said you'll be able to — we'll be opening up pre-orders at some point next year. And you can now finally pre-order this thing, and I don't know the exact price but I remember checking and going, wow, that is surprisingly affordable.

Patrick: Yeah, you can buy it from brookstone.com for $299.99 pre-order.

Patrick: Yeah, you can buy it from brookstone.com for $299.99 pre-order.

Kevin: Yeah. And when you think about what they charge for a remote control helicopter that you just know you’re going to fly once and crash it into the side of a building, those things you think of as being pretty expensive toys, this is remarkably affordable. So, yeah, it’s basically a remote control helicopter that you control with your iPhone, and it has a camera on the front so you can go and fly up to the roof of your house and have a look at what’s going on up there, you know.

凯文：是的。 And when you think about what they charge for a remote control helicopter that you just know you're going to fly once and crash it into the side of a building, those things you think of as being pretty expensive toys, this is remarkably affordable. So, yeah, it's basically a remote control helicopter that you control with your iPhone, and it has a camera on the front so you can go and fly up to the roof of your house and have a look at what's going on up there, you know.

Patrick: And there’s some sort of ability to play with other people through Wi-Fi, I don’t even know how that would work, but it’s possible to quote-unquote battle.

Patrick: And there's some sort of ability to play with other people through Wi-Fi, I don't even know how that would work, but it's possible to quote-unquote battle.

Kevin: Oh dear. AR Drone chicken.

Kevin: Oh dear. AR Drone chicken.

Stephan: Alright, I’m getting one.

Stephan: Alright, I'm getting one.

Kevin: (Laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Patrick: This sounds like a worthwhile investment for SitePoint, get a few of these flying around the offices.

Patrick: This sounds like a worthwhile investment for SitePoint, get a few of these flying around the offices.

Kevin: Yes, yes, absolutely. Stephan what’s your spotlight.

Kevin: Yes, yes, absolutely. Stephan what's your spotlight.

Stephan: So I had a hard time this week, but Patrick showed me the light with his link to the blippy.com 404 page, I think it’s hilarious just because it hits on a subject that I think we all enjoyed recently, the double rainbow YouTube Meme.

Stephan: So I had a hard time this week, but Patrick showed me the light with his link to the blippy.com 404 page , I think it's hilarious just because it hits on a subject that I think we all enjoyed recently, the double rainbow YouTube Meme.

Kevin: And I’ll have to include a link to that in case any listener has not seen the double rainbow.

Kevin: And I'll have to include a link to that in case any listener has not seen the double rainbow.

Stephan: Yeah, if you’ve seen it it’s pretty hilarious three minute video, and the Blippy 404 page is a fantastic take on it. So just click on the little guy down at the bottom left and have yourself a nice laugh.

Stephan: Yeah, if you've seen it it's pretty hilarious three minute video, and the Blippy 404 page is a fantastic take on it. So just click on the little guy down at the bottom left and have yourself a nice laugh.

Kevin: (Laughs) So, as predicted a massive episode this week, but we have come to the end of it, and guys let’s go around the table.

Kevin: (Laughs) So, as predicted a massive episode this week, but we have come to the end of it, and guys let's go around the table.

Brad: I’m Brad Williams from Webdev Studios, and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba.

Brad: I'm Brad Williams from Webdev Studios , and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba .

Patrick: I’m Patrick O’Keefe for the iFroggy network, ifroggy.com, on Twitter @ifroggy.

Patrick: I'm Patrick O'Keefe for the iFroggy network , ifroggy.com, on Twitter @ifroggy .

Stephan: I’m Stephan Segraves, badice.com is the blog, and you can find me on Twitter @ssegraves.

Stephan: I'm Stephan Segraves, badice.com is the blog, and you can find me on Twitter @ssegraves .

Kevin: And you can follow me on Twitter @sentience, and follow SitePoint @sitepointdotcom. Visit the SitePoint podcast at sitepoint.com/podcast, we’ve been getting some great comments in response to episodes, comments like the one that we read from by powerpotatoe this week. Why not send us in a comment and make yours the one we discuss on our next episode?

Kevin: And you can follow me on Twitter @sentience , and follow SitePoint @sitepointdotcom . Visit the SitePoint podcast at sitepoint.com/podcast , we've been getting some great comments in response to episodes, comments like the one that we read from by powerpotatoe this week. Why not send us in a comment and make yours the one we discuss on our next episode?

The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker, and I’m Kevin Yank. Thanks for listening. Bye, bye.

The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker, and I'm Kevin Yank. 谢谢收听。 Bye, bye.

Theme music by Mike Mella.

Theme music by Mike Mella .

Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.

Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we're doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.

翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-75-awesome-overkill/