Episode 37 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week, your hosts Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Brad Williams (@williamsba) and Kevin Yank (@sentience) discuss Patrick’s Blog World Expo 2009 panel, entitled Social Media: The Bad and the Ugly. A complete transcript of the interviews is provided below.
SitePoint Podcast的 第37集现已发布！ 本周，您的主持人Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )，Brad Williams( @williamsba )和Kevin Yank( @sentience )讨论了Patrick的2009年博客世界博览会面板，题为“ 社交媒体：坏人和丑陋的 。 下面提供了采访的完整笔录。
You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:
您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：
SitePoint Podcast #37: Social Media: The Bad and the Ugly (MP3, 38.2MB)
SitePoint Podcast＃37：社交媒体：坏蛋和丑陋 (MP3，38.2MB)
Kevin: November 20th, 2009. The team assembles to discuss Patrick’s Blog World and New Media Expo panel on the dark side of online communities. This is the SitePoint Podcast #37: Social Media: The Bad and the Ugly.
凯文(Kevin)： 2009年11月20日。团队聚集在一起，在在线社区的阴暗面讨论Patrick的Blog World和New Media Expo面板。 这是SitePoint播客＃37：社交媒体：坏与丑。
Kevin: And welcome to another episode of the SitePoint Podcast. It’s a bit of a special one this week. Normally, in between our new shows we have interviews and one-on-one type things but we’ve got all the troops with us, the usual suspects, we’ve got Brad Williams, Patrick O’Keefe, and Stephan Segraves, and we’ve come together today to talk about—Patrick, you chaired a panel at the Blog World and New Media Expo a few weeks back called Social Media: The Bad and the Ugly and you had a great suggestion that we should go through it here because it’s very relevant to our audience.
凯文：欢迎收看SitePoint播客的另一集。 这周有点特别。 通常，在我们的新节目之间，我们会进行采访和一对一的交流，但是我们拥有所有的部队，通常是嫌疑人，我们有布拉德·威廉姆斯，帕特里克·奥基夫和斯蒂芬·塞格雷夫斯，今天我们聚在一起讨论—帕特里克(Patrick)，您在几周前在Blog World和New Media Expo上主持了一个名为“ Social Media：The Bad and Ugly”的小组，您有很好的建议，我们应该在这里进行研究。因为这与我们的受众群体非常相关。
Patrick: Right, sounds great. That’s a great setup! Basically, the premise of the panel is to discuss trends in social media that concerned us as far as the growth of the medium as a whole – and “us” being myself and Amber Nusland who is Director of Community at Radian6, Wayne Sutton who is a partner of OurHashtag in blog, SocialWayne.com and also Robert Scoble who is the Managing Director of Building43.com at RackSpace – and basically, trends in social media that we feel are maybe a detriment to the growth of the medium as a whole.
帕特里克：对，听起来不错。 设置很棒！ 基本上，小组讨论的前提是讨论社交媒体中与我们有关的趋势，甚至涉及到整个媒体的增长；“我们”是我本人，而Radian6社区总监Amber Nusland是Wayne Sutton。是OurHashtag在博客中的合作伙伴，SocialWayne.com，也是RackSpace Building43.com的常务董事罗伯特·斯科布尔(Robert Scoble)–基本上，我们认为社交媒体的趋势可能不利于整个媒体的增长。
Kevin: Yeah. So I suppose you said there were six things that you covered in the panel?
凯文：是的。 所以我想您说小组讨论了六件事？
Patrick: Six specific trends, yes.
帕特里克：是的，有六个具体趋势。
Kevin: Alright. Well, maybe we should just dive right in with number one.
凯文：好吧。 好吧，也许我们应该就从第一名开始潜水。
Patrick: Okay, and the first one we talked about was the unforgiving nature of the loud minority. So basically, what this means is it seems like there’s always a group of people online who are waiting for someone else to make a mistake and it’s almost like you can never make a mistake anymore because it’s going to be saved online, archived forever, talked about, trending topic, shared with everyone. It’s like an expectation to be perfect. Otherwise, it’s boycott or petition or fail and that’s dangerous to me because, well, I look at it as a user. That was the perspective of the panel. So as a user, why don’t you want to do this? For me, I think you want your words to have meaning. Boycotts and petitions these days are really so cheap. I mean, it’s as cheap as table salt. There are boycotts and petitions at any second on Twitter and everything is a fail – but not all of those things are meaningless, and you want to be someone who, when they boycott something or when there’s a petition, you want people to view it as being truly meaningful. But if everything is a fail, like I said, then your words are going to be discounted and you’ll become the boy who cried, “Fail”.
帕特里克(Patrick)：好的，我们谈论的第一个是大声少数群体的宽容性质。 因此，基本上，这意味着似乎总是有一群在线人在等待其他人犯错，并且几乎就像您再也不会犯错了，因为它将被在线保存，永久存档，交谈关于，热门话题，与大家分享。 就像是对完美的期望。 否则，这是抵制，请愿或失败，这对我来说很危险，因为我认为它是用户。 那是小组的观点。 因此，作为用户，您为什么不想这样做？ 对于我来说，我想您希望您的话语具有意义。 这些天的抵制和请愿书真是太便宜了。 我的意思是，它和食盐一样便宜。 Twitter上随时都有抵制和请愿，一切都是失败的-但并非所有这些都是没有意义的，您想要成为一个人，当他们抵制某些东西或有请愿时，您希望人们将其视为真正有意义。 但是，如果一切都失败了，就像我说的那样，那么您的话语就会被轻描淡写，您将成为哭泣的男孩，“失败”。
Kevin: Yeah, definitely. There’s that old saying, “Oh, oh, someone is wrong on the internet.”
凯文：是的，当然。 有句老话：“哦，有人在互联网上错了。”
Patrick: It never happens. So I guess the answer to the question is how can you be better than that? How can you not allow yourself to fall into that trap?
帕特里克：永远不会发生。 因此，我想这个问题的答案是，你怎么能比这更好？ 您怎么不让自己陷入陷阱？
Kevin: Well, sometimes, we can definitely talk about trying to avoid making mistakes but as often as not, I think it’s as much about how you deal with the mistake you’ve made after the fact. If you own up to it and if you take ownership of your mistake and you go out of your way to do the right thing by the people who’ve been, in most cases, simply inconvenienced by the mistake you’ve made, often, you end up better than when you started if the exercise had gone perfectly.
凯文：好吧，有时候，我们绝对可以谈论避免犯错误，但是，我认为，如何处理错误之后的错误同样重要。 如果您愿意承担责任，并且对错误负责，那么在大多数情况下，通常会对您所犯的错误感到不便的人便会竭尽所能地做正确的事情，如果练习进行得很顺利，您的结果将比开始时更好。
Patrick: None of us here have ever made mistake. So this is all simply a scientific discussion, right?
帕特里克：我们这里没有人犯过错误。 因此，这完全是一次科学讨论，对吗？
Kevin: I know. It’s all talking hypothetically.
凯文：我知道。 都是假说的。
Patrick: Yeah, totally hypothetical.
帕特里克：是的，完全是假想的。
Kevin: I know definitely SitePoint has made one or two mistakes. It’s inevitable as a publisher that a typo will slip through or the shopping cart setup will be not quite right when we launch a new book and we’ve had cases of people being unable to open the PDF files that they have paid for. Things like that happen every now and then and we find that if we’re diligent in owning up to it and apologizing and doing a little extra something to make it up to our customers, they become our biggest advocates.
凯文：我知道SitePoint肯定犯了一个或两个错误。 作为发行商，不可避免的是，当我们发行一本新书时，打字错误会打滑，或者购物车的设置不太正确，而且有些案例使人们无法打开他们所付费用的PDF文件。 诸如此类的事情时有发生，我们发现如果我们竭尽所能，向客户道歉并做出一些额外的努力来弥补这一点，他们就会成为我们的最大拥护者。
Patrick: And just on the other side of that just as a user, so how do you not become that person who’s waiting for someone else to fail? I think it starts with giving people the benefit of the doubt and assuming good faith and treating people as you’d want to be treated. That says we all – but we don’t – but we all make mistakes. So everyone makes mistakes. So how do you want to be treated when you make one? I mean, do you want …
帕特里克：另一方面，作为用户，那么您如何不成为等待其他人失败的人呢？ 我认为这首先要给人们带来怀疑的好处，并要秉承真诚，将人们视为要受到对待的人。 那就是说我们所有人-但是我们没有-但是我们所有人都会犯错。 所以每个人都会犯错。 那么，当您结交一个人时，您要如何对待它？ 我的意思是，你想要…
Kevin: Right, people in glass houses and all that.
凯文：对，玻璃屋里的人等等。
Stephan: Sink ships.
史蒂芬：水槽船。
Brad: I almost like it is human nature at this point but to kind of want people to fail, just like in entertainment in general, I mean, look at the whole bubble boy story. Everybody was fascinated by it and as soon as the first word hoax came out, they were wanting to burn them at the stake – whether they knew it was a hoax or not. So it’s almost like people are more fascinated by watching someone fail than they are by watching someone succeed.
布拉德：我现在很喜欢这是人类的天性，但是要让人们失败，就像一般的娱乐活动一样，我的意思是，看看整个泡泡男孩的故事。 每个人都被它迷住了，第一个骗局一字出现后，他们就想把他们烧死在火刑柱上，无论他们是否知道这是个骗局。 因此，就像观看某人失败相比，人们更着迷于观看某人成功。
Kevin: That’s definitely true. I have a double life. In my spare time I do a lot of Improv comedy and Improv is all about failure. People don’t come along to see you make up on the spot a seamless, perfect piece of theatre. They come to see those glitches when you’re sweating because you can’t think of the right words. That’s what people come along to see Improv comedy for. They want to see you take the risks and every once in a while slip off the balance beam and do terrible damage to yourself. So yeah, there is this, I don’t know, it’s like the traffic slowing down as a road accident happens to rubber neck. There is this culture on the internet – that we’re all watching for the people making asses out of themselves.
凯文：那是绝对正确的。 我有双重生活。 在业余时间，我会做很多即兴喜剧，而即兴就是失败。 人们不会来现场看到您组成一个无缝，完美的剧院。 当您出汗时，他们会看到这些故障，因为您无法想到正确的单词。 这就是人们看到Improv喜剧的目的。 他们希望看到您冒险，不时地滑出平衡木，给自己造成可怕的伤害。 所以，是的，我不知道，这就像交通事故在橡胶脖子上发生的交通事故减慢了速度一样。 互联网上存在这种文化-我们所有人都在关注那些靠自己创造资产的人们。
Patrick: And we try to take this from a company perspective, right? That’s a scary thing. I mean, as a company getting into the Internet or making some strides in social media – that you can’t make a mistake or someone’s going to pounce on you. That’s why I think it’s a bad thing and I think the perception is that there are a lot of people out there waiting to fail but personally, I think those people are just more vocal than others. I mean I think most people are well meaning people that are not looking to triumph your failures, so to speak. I think we can probably move on at the second point, which is related, which is the mob mentality. So where does this differ? This is more about the spreading and I guess dissemination of information. So a mob mentality, a mob in this light is basically a group of people who is just passing something along for the sake of passing it along, people that are piling on when they don’t really know the full story or taking the time to understand the full story. You could apply this at Twitter with re-tweets, when you’re just like re-tweeting something without looking at it, and then that thing becomes trending and maybe it’s a good thing, maybe it’s a bad thing, maybe it’s true or untrue. You can apply to a lot of other different things as well but what can happen is, and this is a bad thing for, again, social media and the Internet because it’s sort of has its reputation of being unreliable with some things and there’s this phrase that I don’t like, ‘the blogs’. When you hear it in mainstream media, you hear people say, “Oh, the blogs are talking.” There’s really no such thing but there’s just this perception of this nasty mob that’ll just pass along false information.
帕特里克：我们尝试从公司的角度出发，对吗？ 那是一件可怕的事情。 我的意思是，当一家公司进入Internet或在社交媒体上取得长足进步时，您就不会犯错，否则就会有人突袭您。 这就是为什么我认为这是一件坏事，并且我认为人们那里有很多人在等待失败，但就个人而言，我认为这些人比其他人更有发言权。 我的意思是，我认为大多数人都很好，也就是说，那些不想战胜您的失败的人。 我认为我们可能可以继续进行第二点，这是相关的，这就是暴民的心态。 那么这有何不同？ 这更多是关于传播，我想是信息传播。 因此，一个暴民的心态，从这个角度来说，暴民基本上是一群人，他们只是为了传递某物而传递某物，当他们不真正地了解整个故事或花些时间在不知所措的人时了解完整的故事。 您可以在Twitter上使用重新推文来应用此功能，就像您在不关注任何内容的情况下重新发推文一样，然后事情趋于流行，也许是一件好事，也许这是一件坏事，也许是对还是不对。 。 您也可以将其应用于许多其他不同的事物，但是可能会发生，这再次对社交媒体和Internet而言是一件坏事，因为它在某些事物上的声誉不可靠，这句话我不喜欢的“博客”。 当您在主流媒体上听到它时，您会听到人们说：“哦，博客在说话。” 确实没有这样的事情，但是对这种讨厌的暴民的这种感知只会传递错误的信息。
Stephan: Okay, I’ll be the first to admit to this – when this Northwest thing …
斯蒂芬：好吧，当这件西北的事情……
Patrick: Really?
帕特里克：真的吗？
Stephan: Yeah, I’ve done it once. I’ve done it once, once. I’ll give you an example. When this Northwest Airlines thing happened with the pilots that everybody thought went to sleep, there was a tweet out there that these guys were actually twittering on the flight and that’s why they were distracted and they had this whole conversation. Well, then it just seemed like great cannon fodder to re-tweet it and come to find out that it’s fake. I did my best to go back and say this was fake, don’t read this, this is a joke so, but I fell into the trap. I saw something out there that was really interesting. I read it. It actually looked real and re-tweeted it, and it was fake.
斯蒂芬：是的，我做过一次。 我已经做了一次，一次。 我举一个例子。 当西北航空发生这种事时，每个人都认为他们睡着了，这时飞行员发了一条推文，说这些家伙实际上是在飞机上发推特，这就是为什么他们分心了，并且他们进行了整个谈话。 好吧，这似乎就像重新炮制它并发现它是假的大炮饲料一样。 我尽力回去说这是假的，不读，这是个玩笑，但是我掉进了陷阱。 我看到那里真的很有趣。 我看了 它实际上看起来很真实，然后在推特上发布，而且是假的。
Patrick: So the question I think is what did you learn from that as far as next time?
帕特里克：所以我想的问题是，下一次您从中学到了什么？
Stephan: Wait a little while and see if it gets…
史蒂芬：请稍等一下，看看是否可以…
Brad: Don’t trust what Stephan tweets.
布拉德：不要相信斯蒂芬的推文。
Stephan: Yeah, don’t trust me.
斯蒂芬：是的，不要相信我。
Patrick: That’s not what I learned.
帕特里克：这不是我学到的。
Brad: I actually saw you tweet that. I scrolled down to the very—like they have a bunch of tweets from the pilots and one of the very last one said, “Oops, missed the airport, I guess we’ll turn around,” or something – and as soon as I read that I was like this is fake.
布拉德：我实际上看到你在发推文。 我向下滚动到-就像他们从飞行员那里收到了一堆推文，最后一个说：“糟糕，错过了机场，我想我们会转身的，”之类的东西-直到我读到我当时是假的。
Stephan: Yeah, it just didn’t click with me. It just didn’t click. Yeah, yeah, I’m an idiot, I know.
斯蒂芬：是的，只是没有点击我。 它只是没有点击。 是的，我知道，我是个白痴。
Kevin: But it’s true. Sometimes the fake news is so much more tantalizing and interesting than the correction that comes after the fact and because of the mob mentality, as you put it, Patrick, the fake news gets more exposure and so many people read it and pass it along and many of those people never get to see the correction, the correct information.
凯文：但这是真的。 有时候，假新闻比事后进行的更正更令人着迷，而且有趣，而且由于暴民的心态，正如您所说的，帕特里克，假新闻得到了更多的曝光，所以很多人阅读并传递了这些人中有许多人从来没有看到过正确的信息。
Stephan: What I thought was interesting people actually re-tweeted when I said this was fake.
史蒂芬：我以为有趣的是，当我说这是假的时，人们实际上转推了。
Kevin: Oh, that’s good.
凯文：哦，那很好。
Stephan: That was good. I was glad to see that because I felt stupid for doing it but it was good to know that other people were like, “Oh, he wasn’t just jerking us around.”
史蒂芬：很好。 看到这一点我感到很高兴，因为我对此感到很愚蠢，但很高兴知道其他人都在说：“哦，他不只是在催着我们。”
Kevin: There’s a great blog I follow called Bad Astronomy by Phil Plait and every August, it seems like a hoax email makes the rounds about how Mars for the next week or so is going to be at its largest in the sky for a decade – and I’m quoting from the email here – “It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide at a modest,” blah, blah, blah. It goes on to say Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Now, anyone who knows anything about astronomy knows that that is completely impossible and that Mars will – to the naked eye – never be more than a particularly bright star, and yet every single year he has to debunk this email. It’s gotten to the point where he goes, “Yep, it’s August again, you can read my last three annual posts about this to find out why it’s a bunch of bunk.” But what used to be the unreliable nature of news arriving passed along as a chain letter in your email, that problem has spread to social media in all of its forms and will we ever reach the point where we can trust news that is spread by the mob?
凯文：有一个伟大的博客我跟着叫坏天文菲尔·普莱和每年八月，这似乎是一个恶作剧电子邮件使得轮火星在未来一周左右如何将是其在天空中最大的十年-我在这里从电子邮件中引用–“它将达到-2.9的大小，并以适度的幅度出现25.11弧秒，”等等，等等，等等。 它继续说火星用肉眼看起来将像满月一样大。 现在，任何对天文学一无所知的人都知道，这是完全不可能的，而且火星-从肉眼上看-永远不会比一个特别耀眼的星星更重要，但是每年他都必须对这封电子邮件进行揭穿。 到了他要去的地步，“是的，又是八月，您可以阅读我最近的三本年度相关帖子，以了解为什么这是一堆双层床。” 但是，过去的新闻以不可靠的形式在您的电子邮件中作为连锁信传递，因此该问题已经以各种形式传播到社交媒体，并且我们将达到可以信任由新闻传播的新闻的程度。暴民？
Patrick: I don’t know the answer to that but I think another question – I’ll answer the question with a question – so how can we, as individuals, take responsibility and not be a part of it and then maybe one day from that, there’ll be more trustworthiness available in passing news along through this medium. And I think the way that you’ll do that is it’s going to – on us as individuals – not to trust everyone in the world implicitly and do your own research when something seems odd or maybe oddly sensational and of course, people will pass along the juiciest stories. That’s been happening since the beginning of time – cavemen passed on the juiciest stories but us as individuals…
帕特里克(Patrick)：我不知道答案，但我想另一个问题–我将用一个问题回答这个问题–因此，作为个人，我们怎么能承担责任而不是承担责任，然后也许有一天这样，通过这种媒体传递新闻就会有更多的信任度。 而且我认为您要做的是-以个人的身份对待我们-不要暗含地信任世界上的每个人，而是在某些事情看起来奇怪或可能令人惊讶时，做您自己的研究，当然，人们会过去最有趣的故事。 自从时间开始以来，这种情况就一直在发生–穴居人传递了最有趣的故事，但我们个人……
Stephan: Fire!
史蒂芬：火！
Patrick: Exactly. That’s a vicious rumor. So I think we all have to decide how we want to be taken and that responsibility will then dictate our voice in what we pass on.
帕特里克：是的 。 这是一个恶毒的谣言。 因此，我认为我们所有人都必须决定如何采取行动，而这种责任将决定我们对未来的看法。
Brad: I think another service out there that’s kind of fueled this mob mentality is social news sites like Digg and Reddit and these are very popular sites, and literally, people are up-voting articles based on one sentence or maybe two sentences of the title and they’re not actually not reading the articles but they’re making their decisions based on that. So something may hit the front page at Digg that’s completely false but most people that see it aren’t going to read the full article and they’ll probably automatically assume it’s true or it’s accurate because it’s made the front page and a lot of times that’s not the case.
布拉德：我认为另外一种助长这种暴民思想的服务是像Digg和Reddit这样的社交新闻网站，它们是非常受欢迎的网站，从字面上看，人们根据标题的一句话或两句话对文章进行投票他们实际上并没有阅读文章，而是基于此做出决策。 因此，在Digg的首页上可能有完全是错误的东西，但是大多数看到它的人都不会读完整的文章，他们可能会自动假设它是真实的或准确的，因为它已成为首页，而且很多次了事实并非如此。
Kevin: So Patrick is right. We do need to think about how we can do better. The thing about social media is that it makes us all responsible for the news that we choose to pass along and before you hit that re-tweet button, maybe you owe it to all of the people who follow you to do a quick Google and make sure that this absolutely spectacular news that just arrived in your Twitter stream is actually something that is legit and worth passing along.
凯文：所以帕特里克是对的。 我们确实需要考虑如何做得更好。 社交媒体的意义在于，它使我们所有人都对我们选择传递的新闻负责，并且在您按下该重新推特按钮之前，也许您应该将其归功于跟随您的所有人，以便他们快速制作Google并制作确保刚刚到达您的Twitter流中的这个绝对壮观的新闻实际上是合法的，值得传递。
Patrick: That sounds like a good closing point for that section.
帕特里克(Patrick)：这听起来像是该部分的一个不错的收盘价。
Kevin: Then what’s number 3, Patrick?
凯文：那第3位，帕特里克？
Patrick: So the third one is finally something a little bit different – unreasonable time expectations. There’s a couple of immediate examples of this. One would be something like, “Why haven’t you replied to the friend request that I sent you seven minutes ago?” I think we maybe all had those people who email us or maybe it’s not a friend request, maybe it’s a Twitter DM or maybe it’s a voicemail or an email or a forum post where someone says, “It’s been 10 minutes, where are you?” And I think that’s a side effect of social media because I know a lot of us are viewed as being always online or always connected from your cell phone, from computer, from a laptop. You’re always in front of a screen and people then place an expectation upon your time and expect you to respond within what, to you, maybe an unfair amount of time.
帕特里克(Patrick)：因此，第三个人终于有些不同了–时间安排不合理。 有两个直接的例子。 可能是这样的：“您为什么不回复我七分钟前发送给您的朋友请求？” 我认为我们可能都有那些向我们发送电子邮件的人，或者这不是朋友的请求，或者是Twitter DM，或者是语音邮件，电子邮件或论坛帖子，有人说：“已经10分钟了，您在哪里？ ” 我认为这是社交媒体的副作用，因为我知道我们很多人被视为始终在线或始终通过您的手机，计算机，笔记本电脑进行连接。 您总是在屏幕前，人们会对您的时间寄予期望，并希望您在不合理的时间内做出回应。
During the panel, I actually passed this question over to Robert Scoble because he’s a great example of that because he is someone who is connected all the time and he is someone who has a family, has a job, has other things to do, but he’s always viewed as this always connected person. I’ve seen him say things before in public about how this person wanted his time here or his time here, and it’s just not possible to accommodate every one when you have so many people latching onto you for a moment of your time or sending you a product to review or whatever it may be.
在座谈会上，我实际上将这个问题交给了罗伯特·斯科布尔(Robert Scoble)，因为他是一个很好的例子，因为他是一个一直保持联系的人，而且他是一个有家庭，有工作，还有其他事情要做的人，但是他一直被视为这个始终保持联系的人。 我已经见过他在公开场合谈论过这个人想要他在这里或他的时间的事情，而当你有那么多人在你的片刻时间里吸引你或送你时，就不可能容纳每个人要审查的产品或可能的产品。
Those time expectations again apply to like a company trying to even the space and if they can’t respond in 10 minutes, then they’ll have someone who liked them now be angry at them, and that scares people away from the space.
那些时间的期望再次适用于像一家公司一样试图进入太空的公司，如果他们在10分钟之内无法响应，那么他们就会有一个喜欢他们的人现在对他们生气，这使人们远离太空。
Kevin: Something that I’ve had experience with on this and it’s something we’ve had to deal with in the SitePoint Support Team – is that your response time isn’t always consistent either. If you send something at 6 p.m. Australian time, everyone at SitePoint has gone home and you’re going to be first on the list when we get to the office in the morning, but nevertheless, that means you’re going to be waiting 8 or 9 hours for response. And then someone who sends an email maybe 4:30 p.m. Australia time – our support staff by that point have cleared the day’s backlog and they may be replying to stuff in real time.
凯文：据我所知，这是我们在SitePoint支持团队中必须处理的事情–您的响应时间也不总是一致的。 如果您在澳大利亚时间下午6点发送邮件，SitePoint的每个人都回家了，当我们早上到达办公室时，您将成为名单上的第一名，但是，这意味着您要等待8或9个小时的响应时间。 然后有人在澳大利亚时间下午4:30发送电子邮件-那时我们的支持人员已经清除了当天的积压订单，他们可能正在实时回复邮件。
Depending on when you send it, you get a very different support experience and if you get an immediate response one day, you may come to expect that the following day when you send something after we’ve all gone home. I’m curious if anyone has any thoughts on how that expectation can be managed.
根据发送时间的不同，您会获得完全不同的支持体验；如果有一天能立即得到答复，您可能会期望第二天我们回家后再发送一些东西。 我很好奇，如果有人对如何管理这种期望有任何想法。
Patrick: Well, I’ll say that I think one thing that comes to mind is – I guess – communicating expectations. One way you could do that, I guess, is through response email to their email, it’s probably some sort of ticket system and communicate, “We respond to tickets during this time for our reply time to be between x and x hours, and we will respond as soon as possible.” I think with a community support perspective or a support ticket perspective like a host support for example or in SitePoint’s case, the support of the books and products and whatever, it’s very feasible to post operating hours on your site or to send that because it is a business and it is seen that way. I don’t now if that’s something that businesses enjoy over individuals, but it’s interesting to consider.
帕特里克：嗯，我要说的是，我认为想到的一件事是-我想-是传达期望。 我想，您可以这样做的一种方式是通过回复他们的电子邮件，这可能是某种票务系统并进行交流，“我们在这段时间内回应票证，我们的回复时间在x到x小时之间，而我们将尽快做出回应。” 我认为，从社区支持角度或支持票证角度(例如主机支持)或在SitePoint的情况下，对书籍和产品的支持等等，在您的网站上发布营业时间或发送营业时间是非常可行的，因为业务，就是这样看。 我现在不知道这是企业要胜过个人的事情，但是值得考虑。
Brad: In my own experience, sometimes I’ll work on client work on the weekend or maybe in the evenings just to kind of catch up and get ahead. Then you’re right, you do send out some emails maybe late at night or on the weekends and a lot of times, once you do that once then they just assume, oh, he’s working all weekend, so I can call him and send him emails and this and that. Always – I’m very upfront about it as well. I’ll say, “Look, I may email you on a Saturday night because I’m working on something. That doesn’t mean next Saturday night I’m going to be working and you can just pick up the phone and call me.” I’m always pretty upfront about that too, and I think most people understand as long as you tell them.
布拉德：根据我自己的经验，有时我会在周末或晚上进行客户服务，以赶上并取得成功。 然后您说对了，您确实会在深夜或周末以及很多次发送一些电子邮件，一旦您发送了一次，他们就假设，哦，他整个周末都在工作，所以我可以打电话给他并发送他给他发电子邮件，等等。 一直-我也很前瞻。 我会说：“看，我可能会在星期六晚上给您发送电子邮件，因为我正在做一些事情。 这并不意味着下周六晚上我要去上班，您可以拿起电话给我打电话。” 我总是对此事很前up，只要您告诉他们，我想大多数人都会明白。
Kevin: Getting away from support email for a second and getting back to these social networks, more and more of us are carrying around phones that let us access things like Facebook on the go, and that creates an even more real time expectation – “Hey, my poke to you on Facebook – you could have picked out your phone out of your pocket at any time and seen it and poked me back, why didn’t you?” Maybe it’s as simple as your batteries died that day and you just were offline when normally people do expect you to be checking your phone every 5 minutes for a Facebook message.
凯文(Kevin)：一秒钟不再使用支持电子邮件，而是回到这些社交网络，越来越多的人随身携带了手机，这些手机可以让我们随时随地访问Facebook之类的东西，这带来了更加实时的期望-“嘿，我在Facebook上向您戳的电话–您可以随时从口袋里掏出手机，看到它然后回弹我，为什么不呢？” 也许就像那天电池没电一样简单，而您通常处于离线状态，通常人们希望您每隔5分钟检查一次手机是否收到Facebook消息。
Patrick: Right. It’s something that I think people need to work on to have that expectation on other people. So, with you, just be reasonable, be fair with people if they can’t get back to you within a specific amount of time.
帕特里克：对。 我认为这是人们需要努力对其他人抱有这种期望的事情。 因此，如果您在特定时间内无法与您取得联系，那么与您一起，公平对待他人吧。
I know there was another example that Wayne talked about and I was actually with him at the time, so it was funny. We were in Orlando at another conference and it was like 10 p.m. at night. We’re kind of getting into a social event for the conference and he says someone actually left a message on his Facebook wall about some information that they wanted him to send them that he had already taken care of – he thought. It was a request for information posted actually on his Facebook wall, like “Why haven’t you done this, why haven’t you done this yet, I’m waiting on you.”
我知道Wayne谈论过另一个例子，当时我实际上和他在一起，所以很有趣。 我们在奥兰多举行的另一次会议上，晚上大约晚上10点。 我们有点想参加会议的社交活动，他说有人实际上在他的Facebook墙上留言了一些信息，他们想让他发送给他，他已经照顾好了。 这实际上是在他的Facebook墙上张贴信息的请求，例如“为什么不这样做，为什么还没有这样做，我在等你呢。”
So it’s in front of everyone where this person could just as easily send their message through Facebook or, if you know Wayne, you know he’s available everywhere; you can Google his name and you get his phone number and all this kind of information. So to actually take it and post it publicly at 10 p.m. at night – publicly at all really is the issue, but not having the proper respect for boundaries of time – it’s always a dangerous thing.
因此，在所有人面前，这个人可以轻松地通过Facebook发送消息，或者，如果您认识Wayne，就知道他到处都是消息。 您可以通过Google搜索他的名字，并获取他的电话号码和所有此类信息。 因此，实际上要在晚上10时公开并发布它-完全是公开的问题，但是没有适当地尊重时间范围-这始终是危险的事情。
Kevin: Yeah, and this kind of comes back to the first point of how you choose to point out when people – whether you’re right or not, when you feel like someone has failed you online, whether they’ve made a mistake or whether they’ve not gotten back to you in a timely fashion. If you choose to point that out in a public forum, that’s a strong thing you’re doing and you really need to think that through. Whereas in many cases, a private message can do just as well and you need not draw attention to the temporary failings of the people that you are dealing with online.
凯文：是的，这又回到了您选择指出人的时候的第一点–无论您是否正确，当您觉得某人在网上失败时，他们是否犯了错误或他们是否没有及时与您联系。 如果您选择在公共论坛上指出这一点，那么您正在做的事情很重要，您确实需要仔细考虑。 在许多情况下，私人信息也可以做到，您无需引起注意，您正在与网络上的人打交道。
What’s number four?
四号是什么？
Patrick: So the fourth point is self-entitlement and this is against many forums. “Only the A-listeners get attention” is the popular one online, whatever it be the Twitter A list or A-list bloggers or people on Techmeme, or in the technology field anyway. Whatever it is, there’s a sense of entitlement to Twitter followers, to RSS subscribers. This is related to our appeal of course and web developers and technology people; and a good example is this celebrity getting on Twitter and having a lot of followers all of the sudden.
帕特里克(Patrick)：第四点是自我权利，这与许多论坛背道而驰。 无论是Twitter A列表还是A列表博客或Techmeme或技术领域的人员，“只有A-listeners才能引起注意”才是流行的在线。 无论是什么，都有Twitter追随者和RSS订阅者的权利感。 这与我们当然对网站开发人员和技术人员的吸引力有关； 一个很好的例子就是，这位名人登上Twitter，突然间吸引了很多追随者。
I’ve heard people tweet and I’m sure probably all of us have heard people tweet “This person just got on Twitter, they got all these followers and they don’t deserve those followers, gosh dang it! I’ve been here since day 1 and I have 1,000 followers.”
我听过有人发推文，而且我敢肯定，我们所有人都可能听过人发推文。“这个人刚上Twitter，他们得到了所有这些追随者，他们不值得这些追随者，天哪！ 从第一天起我就一直在这里，我有1000个关注者。”
It’s just this entitlement online where it seems like it’s almost a disease with some people where if someone has more than them, then they don’t deserve it. I don’t know how you’re experience has been with that?
这只是在线上的一项权利，似乎对某些人来说几乎是一种疾病，如果某人的财产超过他们，那他们就不配得到。 我不知道您的经历如何？
Kevin: What does it mean to deserve followers?
凯文：值得追随者是什么意思？
Patrick: Right. I mean, that’s the question, what does it mean to deserve followers, subscribers, whatever it is because to me, there’s not really such a thing as that, and if we talk about celebrities for example – Oprah got on Twitter, that caused kind of a stir. She’s got a lot of Twitter followers all of a sudden, yet she rarely tweets or at least she did at the start, I haven’t checked her account now – but the thing about Oprah and the thing I think people don’t understand or they forget about Twitter and about any of these services is that your work you do everywhere gets you more following, everywhere. It doesn’t matter if you’re on Twitter or you’re on some other site. If you are creating media and you’re getting in front of people and you’re getting exposure, that’s obviously going to help you everywhere – and that includes your Twitter followers.
帕特里克：对。 我的意思是，这是一个问题，应得到追随者，订阅者是什么意思，无论是什么原因，因为对我而言，根本就没有这样的事情，例如，如果我们谈论名人–奥普拉(Oprah)上了Twitter，那是一种原因轰动一时。 她突然有很多Twitter追随者，但她很少发推文，或者至少在一开始就这样做，我现在还没有检查她的帐户-但是关于Oprah的事情以及我认为人们不理解或他们会忘记Twitter，而忘了其中的任何服务，就是您在任何地方所做的工作都会带给您更多的关注度。 无论您是在Twitter上还是在其他网站上，都没有关系。 如果您正在创建媒体，并且在人们面前得到了曝光，那么显然可以为您提供全方位的帮助-其中包括您的Twitter关注者。
We could say like I released a book – Kevin released a book – that wasn’t about Twitter or anything, but, because we put out a book, people bought it, they searched for our names so they went into our sites and they found us on Twitter and they followed us. The book is not about Twitter, but the book helps us gain a larger audience and that translates into more Twitter followers if you want to look at that metric or more web traffic, or whatever it may be. I go speak at a conference – I’m not doing that for Twitter followers – but yet everyone in the room might follow me on Twitter.
我们可以说就像我发行了一本书–凯文发行了一本书–根本不是关于Twitter或其他任何东西，但是，因为我们发行了一本书，人们买了它，他们搜索了我们的名字，所以他们进入了我们的网站，他们发现了我们在Twitter上，他们关注了我们。 这本书不是关于Twitter的，但是这本书可以帮助我们吸引更多的读者，如果您想要查看该指标，更多的网络流量或其他任何信息，可以转化为更多的Twitter关注者。 我在会议上发言-我不是为Twitter追随者这样做-但会议室中的每个人都可能在Twitter上关注我。
I think the key is that you have your work everywhere and you could use Oprah as a great example as probably one of the most successful entrepreneurs of our time especially on television in the entertainment field. She has this huge audience and she brought that to Twitter or people who are already on Twitter know her and followed her – so just everything that you’re doing is contributing to your overall success.
我认为关键在于您无处不在，您可以使用奥普拉(Oprah)作为一个很好的例子，可能是我们这个时代最成功的企业家之一，尤其是在娱乐领域的电视上。 她拥有庞大的受众群体，并将其带到Twitter或已经在Twitter上的人认识她并关注她-因此，您所做的一切都为您的整体成功做出了贡献。
Stephan: See, I have 300 followers on Twitter.
史蒂芬：看，我在Twitter上有300个关注者。
Patrick: You deserve every single one, I tell you!
帕特里克：我告诉你，你应该得到每一个人！
Stephan: I worked really hard for those 300, but it doesn’t bother me. I have less than all of you guys, and it doesn’t bother. Who cares, right? I mean… For people who follow me, I try to make good tweets. Sometimes, I fail – Balloon Boy stuff.
史蒂芬：我真的为那300个而努力工作，但这并没有打扰我。 我比你们所有人都少，而且也不会打扰。 谁在乎吧？ 我的意思是……对于跟随我的人，我会尝试发布良好的推文。 有时候，我失败了-气球男孩的东西。
Patrick: It can only be you.
帕特里克：只能是你。
Stephan: Exactly, and I think people who see me set low expectations themselves when it comes to followers.
斯蒂芬：是的 ，我认为看到我的人对追随者的期望值很低。
Patrick: I mean, followers – that’s just one example. And maybe it’s not the best example, but it is one that gets put out there a lot because people are always talking about the number of followers.
帕特里克：我的意思是，追随者–这只是一个例子。 也许这不是最好的例子，但这是一个广为流传的例子，因为人们一直在谈论追随者的数量。
Kevin: So, when you are judging someone’s worthiness for the followers they receive on Twitter, it isn’t just about Twitter. The biggest Twitter star – if all they do is Twitter – they’re only going to reach a certain amount of people whereas the Oprah and the other celebrities of the world who have made their bones in other media, of course they’re going to come on and capture a lot of eyeballs.
凯文：所以，当您判断某人是否值得他们在Twitter上获得关注者时，不仅仅涉及Twitter。 Twitter上最大的明星-如果他们做的只是Twitter-他们只会吸引一定数量的人，而奥普拉和世界其他名人已经在其他媒体中发了言，他们当然会来吧，吸引很多眼球。
Stephan: You see, that’s the thing too. I don’t contribute to WordPress. I’m not a WordPress developer, Brad.
史蒂芬：你知道，那也是事实。 我不为WordPress做任何贡献。 我不是WordPress开发人员，Brad。
Brad: Loser.
布拉德：失败者。
Stephan: I don’t write a book, I don’t have a network of sites, Patrick, and I don’t work for SitePoint. I don’t have the means out there for me to have a bunch of Twitter followers right now. In that case, even blog readers. I don’t even know what my numbers are, but my numbers aren’t that high and I don’t have a huge expectation of getting a lot of readers. I’m just writing. I guess, I’m really confused by this one because I don’t really understand people’s obsession with it.
斯蒂芬：我不写书，我没有站点网络，帕特里克，我不在SitePoint工作。 我目前没有足够的资金来吸引大量Twitter关注者。 在这种情况下，甚至是博客读者。 我什至不知道我的数字是多少，但是我的数字不是那么高，我对获得很多读者并不抱有太大期望。 我只是在写 我猜想，我对此感到很困惑，因为我不太了解人们对它的痴迷。
Kevin: I think there’s a certain enviable aspect to having a small, focused number of followers. I mean, I don’t have – by Twitter rockstar standards, I think all of us here are pretty C- if not D-list, to be honest.
凯文(Kevin)：我认为吸引少数关注者在某些方面令人羡慕。 我的意思是，我没有–按照Twitter摇滚明星的标准，老实说，我认为我们每个人都是C-甚至D-list。
Patrick: Well I never!
帕特里克：嗯，我从来没有！
Kevin: And I don’t mind that at all. I like that the people who are following me, most of them have met me personally and those who haven’t are genuinely interested in the stuff that I write about, that I speak about, that I find interesting day to day. I never, as I’m writing a tweet, need to check myself and think, is this interesting enough to my follower base or is it only going to be interesting to 25 percent and I’m going to annoy the other 75 percent, so I better just keep my mouth shut? It’s nice not to have to check yourself.
凯文：我完全不介意。 我喜欢那些跟随我的人，其中大多数人是我个人认识的人，而那些对我每天写的有趣的东西真正感兴趣的人则没有真正的兴趣。 当我写推文时，我从来不需要检查自己并思考，这对我的关注者群是否足够有趣，还是只对25％的人感兴趣，而我会烦恼其他75％的人，所以我最好只是闭嘴吗？ 不必检查自己也很高兴。
Patrick: I kind of had this conversation with someone I know who’s in the music industry because I caught them using something that generates followers – and the power of your following is in what they will do and what they will share. So, if you have 10,000 followers but they don’t read what you write, that doesn’t really mean a whole lot. If you have a thousand followers and they read every word, that’s very powerful.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我与一位我认识的音乐行业的人进行了这种交谈，因为我是通过吸引追随者的东西来吸引他们的-您追随者的力量在于他们的工作和分享的意愿。 因此，如果您有10,000个关注者，但他们不读您写的内容，那实际上并不意味着很多。 如果您有一千个追随者，并且他们读完每个单词，那么功能非常强大。
I think that’s the difference and I don’t know what that translates to or how you measure it in numbers. We can’t lie, right, and numbers are important and numbers are what you get judged on. When you sell ads, you get judged on traffic, you get judged on click-throughs and that’s kind of the balancing bar is the actual traffic that converts. But, numbers are still important and you need to work for those numbers. You are entitled to one reader, one sale, one follower, one anything – you’re entitled to nothing. You have to work for #1 and then you work for #2, so you shouldn’t fall into the trap of self-entitlement.
我认为那是区别，我不知道这意味着什么或如何用数字来衡量。 我们不能撒谎，对，数字很重要，数字是您判断的依据。 出售广告时，您需要根据点击量来判断流量，也要根据点击率来判断，这就是实际转化的流量。 但是，数字仍然很重要，您需要为这些数字努力。 您有权获得一位读者，一笔交易，一位追随者，任何东西–您没有任何权利。 您必须为＃1工作，然后为＃2工作，所以您不应该陷入自我权利的陷阱。
Kevin: Number five?
凯文：第五？
Patrick: Point number five is trying to force everyone to use a tool or community the very same way. So we’ve all seen this, I would assume, on various platforms whether it be Facebook, social networking, Twitter, microblogging, forums, whatever – someone who is basically saying we use it this manner and you should use it in this manner too.
帕特里克(Patrick)：第五点试图迫使每个人以相同的方式使用工具或社区。 因此，我想我们都已经在各种平台上看到了这一点，无论是Facebook，社交网络，Twitter，微博客，论坛，还是其他人-基本上是说我们以这种方式使用它的人，您也应该以这种方式使用它。 。
Kevin: The World Series has highlighted this for a lot of people on Twitter over the past week. I myself am not really a baseball fan and yet so many of the people in the technology world that I follow on Twitter seem to be huge baseball fans because that’s all they have tweeted about for the past week. Understandably, there has been a bit of a backlash – people going, “Man, I wish I could just filter out the baseball tweets and there have been calls for people to get a new Twitter account if they want to Twitter about baseball and keep their normal Twitter feed about technology the way it always is. Obviously, this prompts a lot more negative responses than constructive ones – people saying, “Well, if you’re not interested in my baseball tweets, there is a big Un-follow button right over there – go ahead and click it.
凯文：过去一周，世界大赛在Twitter上为很多人强调了这一点。 我本人并不是真正的棒球迷，但是我在Twitter上关注的技术界许多人似乎都是巨大的棒球迷，因为那是他们过去一周发布的全部推文。 可以理解的是，存在一些反弹–人们继续说：“伙计，我希望我能过滤掉棒球上的推文，并且有人呼吁人们如果想在Twitter上谈论棒球并保持自己的生活，则要获得一个新的Twitter帐户。普通的Twitter总是以技术的方式提供有关技术的信息。 显然，这比建设性的建议引起了更多的负面回应-人们说：“好吧，如果您对我的棒球推文不感兴趣，那边会有一个很大的取消关注按钮-继续并单击它。
You don’t want to click it. You want to follow the person’s stream and so – but yeah, you need to accept the fact that you’re not going to be able to dictate the way people publish to these networks just to suit you. The best you can do is to look for a better tool for yourself.
您不想单击它。 您想关注此人的动态，但是–是的，您需要接受一个事实，即您将无法决定人们向这些网络发布的方式仅适合您。 您能做的最好的事情就是为自己寻找更好的工具。
Patrick: I think at our core – and I don’t know if you guys agree or disagree with this but – at our core we want people that use them differently I think – or a lot of us do – because here’s the thing. We didn’t see all the uses for Twitter when it first came out. We don’t see all the uses for any tool when it first comes out, and if we’re all doing the same thing then none of these tools ever grow. They never become any better. It always takes someone to use it differently. The first person to use a tag, let’s say; the first person to use Twitter to track their location. You always have to be the first person to do something to determine whether or not it’s good or not. So I think that instead of complaining about people doing it differently – and you can let people experiment and to try new things without being there to judge them because even if it’s not a good idea. Again, if we never try anything new, the medium would never grow.
帕特里克(Patrick)：我认为这是我们的核心–我不知道你们是否同意这一点，但–我们想让人们以不同的方式使用它们，或者我们很多人都这样做，因为这就是问题所在。 当Twitter首次发布时，我们并未看到其所有用途。 首次推出时，我们看不到任何工具的全部用途，而且如果我们都在做相同的事情，那么这些工具都将一无所获。 他们永远不会变得更好。 总是需要有人以不同的方式使用它。 假设是第一个使用标签的人； 第一个使用Twitter跟踪其位置的人。 您始终必须是做某事的第一人，以确定它是否好。 因此，我认为，与其抱怨别人做的不同，不如让他们尝试并尝试新事物，而不必去评判它们，因为这不是一个好主意。 再说一次，如果我们从不尝试任何新事物，那么这种媒介将永远不会增长。
Kevin: And if you’re in the business of creating these social networking tools, it’s probably best to be open-minded about how your users are going to use it. If Twitter were quick to implement things like a re-tweet feature or as we’ve spoken about on this podcast before, taking URLs out of the character count for Twitter. If Twitter made quick decisions on those and changed the service to tighten the way people use it, it wouldn’t be the big success it is now because as you say, Patrick, the users wouldn’t be free to experiment and play with it and find interesting, unexpected ways to use it.
凯文：如果您要创建这些社交网络工具，最好是对用户如何使用它持开放态度。 如果Twitter快速实现了诸如转发功能，或者像我们之前在本播客中谈到的那样，则从URL的字符数中删除URL。 如果Twitter对这些做出快速决定并改变服务以加强人们的使用方式，那么现在就不会有太大的成功，因为正如您所说，Patrick，用户将无法自由尝试和使用它并找到有趣，意外的方式来使用它。
Patrick: When Twitter first came out no one ever – they didn’t see it as someone tweeting from jail saying, “Arrested” right? I mean, they didn’t really see it as that sort of thing and that’s just one of the great things about the service is it has evolved and it becomes what you want and I would never say, “You know what, there’s an Un-follow button. Hit it.” But I would say that that is the power of Twitter. You know, we all can follow whoever we want to follow and rather than complaining what someone else is doing, you can – it’s true, you can always un-follow. Kevin: Social networking in general gives every user the power to vote with their eyeballs as the case may be for the types of publishing that they appreciate.
帕特里克(Patrick)：推特(Twitter)首次问世时没有人–他们没有看到有人在监狱里发推文说“被捕”，对吗？ 我的意思是，他们并没有真正将其视为那种事情，而这只是该服务的发展，它已成为您想要的东西，而我永远不会说：“您知道什么，有一个联合国-跟随按钮。 打它。” 但是我要说的是Twitter的力量。 您知道，我们所有人都可以跟随我们想要跟随的人，而不是抱怨别人在做什么，您可以–的确如此，您可以始终取消关注。 凯文(Kevin)：社交网络通常使每个用户都有能力用自己的眼球投票，视他们喜欢的出版物类型而定。
Patrick: Exactly, and you know there’s a bunch of people out there that don’t like automation in Twitter feeds and I can understand that. But I would say also, and this is something I’ve said many times to people is, “You and I know what RSS is. Guess what, most people don’t” and most people want to subscribe to their favorite publication in one way or another and a lot of the people like to do it on Twitter. I hate to break it to you but some people do follow their favorite blog or CNN, or whoever, because they want to see the new entries on Twitter. That’s just how they receive information. And guess what, it’s not really hurting you or me for publications that do that because we don’t have to follow them. So just let them breathe I guess is the point.
帕特里克(Patrick)：的确，您知道那里有很多人不喜欢Twitter feed中的自动化，我可以理解。 但是我也要说，这是我多次对人们说的话，“您和我都知道RSS是什么。 猜猜是什么，大多数人不知道”，大多数人想以一种或另一种方式订阅自己喜欢的出版物，很多人喜欢在Twitter上订阅。 我不希望将其透露给您，但是有些人会关注他们喜欢的博客或CNN或任何人，因为他们想在Twitter上查看新条目。 这就是他们接收信息的方式。 猜猜是什么，这样做的出版物并没有真正伤害您或我，因为我们不必关注它们。 所以，让他们喘口气，我想这就是重点。
Kevin: Yeah, I’ve seen you can get traffic alerts on Twitter for your particular area – if the traffic authority offers updates in that particular form – and sometimes even volunteers will automate the scraping of the traffic authority’s web site in posting new updates to Twitter. I know when we had the big bushfires last year here in Australia the fire association opened up a Twitter account and were posting updates as to where the fire fronts where and where evacuations were being considered, and all that sort of stuff was coming through Twitter. It was really quite useful.
凯文：是的，我已经看到您可以在Twitter上收到您特定区域的交通警报-如果交通管理局以该特定形式提供更新-有时甚至自愿者也会自动将交通管理局网站的抓取信息发布到推特。 I know when we had the big bushfires last year here in Australia the fire association opened up a Twitter account and were posting updates as to where the fire fronts where and where evacuations were being considered, and all that sort of stuff was coming through Twitter. It was really quite useful.
Patrick: So the sixth and the final trend that we highlighted was being a sock puppet and just to elaborate on that. Basically, it’s pretending not to be affiliated with something that you are in fact affiliated with. I have a really great example of this and that’s a poker tournament that was promoting itself on MyCommunities. And they came to my site and first they asked me if I wanted to work with them, I said no. So they came to my site anyway and posted an advertisement. I removed it. A little while later they posted again but this time they acted like they were an interested consumer and they asked, “I’m looking for a destination to go with my fiancée” and then a member on our site replied helpfully. I replied and said I didn’t have any thoughts but good luck. And then that person replied and said, “Oh, thanks for the replies but have you heard about this tournament?” So you know that’s a really good example of it and they had done a lot of other things as well but basically it’s posting promotional comments where they’re not welcome or more specifically where you’re hiding your affiliation with whatever it is that you’re promoting. So you’re acting just as a third party when really you’re not.
Patrick: So the sixth and the final trend that we highlighted was being a sock puppet and just to elaborate on that. Basically, it's pretending not to be affiliated with something that you are in fact affiliated with. I have a really great example of this and that's a poker tournament that was promoting itself on MyCommunities. And they came to my site and first they asked me if I wanted to work with them, I said no. So they came to my site anyway and posted an advertisement. 我删除了 A little while later they posted again but this time they acted like they were an interested consumer and they asked, “I'm looking for a destination to go with my fiancée” and then a member on our site replied helpfully. I replied and said I didn't have any thoughts but good luck. And then that person replied and said, “Oh, thanks for the replies but have you heard about this tournament?” So you know that's a really good example of it and they had done a lot of other things as well but basically it's posting promotional comments where they're not welcome or more specifically where you're hiding your affiliation with whatever it is that you're promoting. So you're acting just as a third party when really you're not.
Kevin: So we can all agree this, from a user perspective, is undesirable.
Kevin: So we can all agree this, from a user perspective, is undesirable.
Patrick: Right.
帕特里克：对。
Kevin: Having fake users out there shilling for products. But how do we avoid it? It seems like there will always be – as long as there will be social networks there will be companies interested in getting their message out there by any means. Does it pay off when people do this?
Kevin: Having fake users out there shilling for products. But how do we avoid it? It seems like there will always be – as long as there will be social networks there will be companies interested in getting their message out there by any means. Does it pay off when people do this?
Kevin: Yeah, I mean the perspective of the panel is basically why you don’t want to do this, right. So why wouldn’t you want to do this? It’s clear I think why users don’t want it because it’s lying – which is a bad thing, but you know I think the problem is – and again, it’s funny because we mentioned Oprah. She had a quote about doing things in the light and not doing things in the light and how it will all come out in the end and I can’t remember the quote, but the point is that if you’re hiding something there’s a pretty good chance it’ll come out. It came out with this tournament, I exposed it and you know people will find out and when they do, they can’t trust you and that trust irreparable for a lot of companies. There are some times you can come back but I wouldn’t bet on your side, if you’re caught to be doing this sort of thing, that you can regain some of the public’s trust. So I would hope with most people they would know this is a bad thing but I think a lot of people would be surprised about how many people think it’s okay. How many businesspeople either don’t have a concept for it or the Internet or how it all works, or people who were just totally results driven and they don’t care because they think the Internet’s anonymous and they’ll never be found out. But I mean the reality is that people can be tied to organizations and to companies. Their IP addresses can be helpful. People can tie names, email addresses. The odds are that you’ll slip up rather than that you’ll be able to hold the façade up. So from the start you always want to disclose who you are and who you work for when posting comments that relate to your company because when you do so, you’re fostering trust.
Kevin: Yeah, I mean the perspective of the panel is basically why you don't want to do this, right. So why wouldn't you want to do this? It's clear I think why users don't want it because it's lying – which is a bad thing, but you know I think the problem is – and again, it's funny because we mentioned Oprah. She had a quote about doing things in the light and not doing things in the light and how it will all come out in the end and I can't remember the quote, but the point is that if you're hiding something there's a pretty good chance it'll come out. It came out with this tournament, I exposed it and you know people will find out and when they do, they can't trust you and that trust irreparable for a lot of companies. There are some times you can come back but I wouldn't bet on your side, if you're caught to be doing this sort of thing, that you can regain some of the public's trust. So I would hope with most people they would know this is a bad thing but I think a lot of people would be surprised about how many people think it's okay. How many businesspeople either don't have a concept for it or the Internet or how it all works, or people who were just totally results driven and they don't care because they think the Internet's anonymous and they'll never be found out. But I mean the reality is that people can be tied to organizations and to companies. Their IP addresses can be helpful. People can tie names, email addresses. The odds are that you'll slip up rather than that you'll be able to hold the façade up. So from the start you always want to disclose who you are and who you work for when posting comments that relate to your company because when you do so, you're fostering trust.
Kevin: And because if you don’t and you do slip up, that’s going to do way more damage to your brand than whatever message you were trying to get out there would benefit you.
Kevin: And because if you don't and you do slip up, that's going to do way more damage to your brand than whatever message you were trying to get out there would benefit you.
Patrick: Right.
帕特里克：对。
Kevin: Is there any way to do this – if you do it out in the open is it okay, necessarily? Is it beneficial? I’m thinking right now it’s November, for people interested in writing it’s – what do they call it? NaNoWriMo, National Novel Writing Month, and the idea is that people who are interested in writing as a hobby will try and hunker down in November and write an entire novel during the month of November. Now I can imagine that – I’ve already seen a lot of ads and sales for software for creative writers, things like Scrivener for the Mac. They’re out there trying to push their products obviously during this month when people are going to be thinking, “Oh, I could really use a better software tool to help me get my novel written in November”. If these companies wanted to get it out there in these National Novel Writing Month forums where people are discussing their creative writing and saying things like, “Well you know there’s a great feature in Scrivener that let’s you lay out a timeline to plan your writing.” Is that okay? Is that going to work for you if you put, “By the way I work for Scrivener” at the bottom?
Kevin: Is there any way to do this – if you do it out in the open is it okay, necessarily? 有好处吗？ I'm thinking right now it's November, for people interested in writing it's – what do they call it? NaNoWriMo, National Novel Writing Month, and the idea is that people who are interested in writing as a hobby will try and hunker down in November and write an entire novel during the month of November. Now I can imagine that – I've already seen a lot of ads and sales for software for creative writers, things like Scrivener for the Mac. They're out there trying to push their products obviously during this month when people are going to be thinking, “Oh, I could really use a better software tool to help me get my novel written in November”. If these companies wanted to get it out there in these National Novel Writing Month forums where people are discussing their creative writing and saying things like, “Well you know there's a great feature in Scrivener that let's you lay out a timeline to plan your writing.” 这样可以吗？ Is that going to work for you if you put, “By the way I work for Scrivener” at the bottom?
Patrick: You know it’s… I did it though from my background is forums so that’s a good example. Thank you, Kevin, for the softball.
Patrick: You know it's… I did it though from my background is forums so that's a good example. Thank you, Kevin, for the softball.
But no, I don’t think it will work because there’s more to it than that and I think it varies by the medium. If you go on Twitter and you sign and that you identify who you are. Also community discussions lead to Twitter, if that wasn’t already clear. And so if you go out on there and you disclose who you are in your little description, your little bio, and you discriminately contact people that you think might be interested in your services, that’ll be one thing, but forums are a whole different beast. They’re really a structured community and most of them have guidelines or moderation of some sort. Most of the active ones, most of the ones that you would care to reach do have some sort of moderation. Before you enter any community, whether it be Twitter – which is a community to some, not to others – or forums or any other site, you need to check the ground rules and observe before you jump in so you see how other people are using the service. You see what the guidelines say if they mention that you can’t mention your company or if there’s even any doubt in your mind, you should never jump in and just start posting. You should always ask the staff and make sure it’s okay just because the damage that can be done – like you said – far outweighs the potential benefit if in fact they don’t like what you’re doing or what you’re doing is not allowed. So I think with forums and structured communities like that in particular, you definitely need to check the guidelines, check the staff and always err in the side of caution.
But no, I don't think it will work because there's more to it than that and I think it varies by the medium. If you go on Twitter and you sign and that you identify who you are. Also community discussions lead to Twitter, if that wasn't already clear. And so if you go out on there and you disclose who you are in your little description, your little bio, and you discriminately contact people that you think might be interested in your services, that'll be one thing, but forums are a whole different beast. They're really a structured community and most of them have guidelines or moderation of some sort. Most of the active ones, most of the ones that you would care to reach do have some sort of moderation. Before you enter any community, whether it be Twitter – which is a community to some, not to others – or forums or any other site, you need to check the ground rules and observe before you jump in so you see how other people are using the service. You see what the guidelines say if they mention that you can't mention your company or if there's even any doubt in your mind, you should never jump in and just start posting. You should always ask the staff and make sure it's okay just because the damage that can be done – like you said – far outweighs the potential benefit if in fact they don't like what you're doing or what you're doing is not allowed. So I think with forums and structured communities like that in particular, you definitely need to check the guidelines, check the staff and always err in the side of caution.
Kevin: Alright. Those are the six points you covered in your panel at Blog World and New Media Expo. So how was it received?
凯文：好吧。 Those are the six points you covered in your panel at Blog World and New Media Expo. So how was it received?
Patrick: It was received really well. It was interesting to hear all the feedback in person, on Twitter. Very positive stuff from a lot of different people. There was a lot of people that were there that I know and know that they’re very savvy, smart, and that the panel was – not necessarily their area but they still showed up to support and be a part of it like Darren Rowse of ProBlogger, like Mari Smith who knows a lot about Facebook, and afterward it was very well received. So it was really good. I think that the overwhelming – how we closed the panel was why do people care? Why should you care if social media grows because that was the theme of the panel and I think the thing is the growth of social media is good for everyone who’s in it legitimately – and everyone who wants to benefit from it in some way – professionally, personally, business-wise. If it grows and you’re doing it right then we all win, and if you are part of the problem then you know it’ll be reflected on you very badly and your company and so on, and you won’t benefit. But with proper consideration you can benefit from the space greatly.
Patrick: It was received really well. It was interesting to hear all the feedback in person, on Twitter. Very positive stuff from a lot of different people. There was a lot of people that were there that I know and know that they're very savvy, smart, and that the panel was – not necessarily their area but they still showed up to support and be a part of it like Darren Rowse of ProBlogger, like Mari Smith who knows a lot about Facebook, and afterward it was very well received. So it was really good. I think that the overwhelming – how we closed the panel was why do people care? Why should you care if social media grows because that was the theme of the panel and I think the thing is the growth of social media is good for everyone who's in it legitimately – and everyone who wants to benefit from it in some way – professionally, personally, business-wise. If it grows and you're doing it right then we all win, and if you are part of the problem then you know it'll be reflected on you very badly and your company and so on, and you won't benefit. But with proper consideration you can benefit from the space greatly.
Kevin: So think twice before you join the loud minority when someone makes a mistake. The mob, if you’re going to be a member of the mob you should try and be a thoughtful one. Before you pass things along you check them out. Be reasonable about your expectations about people’s time. Try not to think less of people who get many followers on Twitter because often they’ve earned it in some other medium. Be flexible about how people choose to use these tools because that’s what enables them to evolve in exciting ways. And finally if you’re trying to get a commercial message out there, do it openly and be sensitive to how people are going to take it in any given forum or environment. That was a great talk, guys. And yeah, I think that the more people can take those pieces of advice to heart, the better a future that we can see in social networks. Guys, let’s go around the table.
Kevin: So think twice before you join the loud minority when someone makes a mistake. The mob, if you're going to be a member of the mob you should try and be a thoughtful one. Before you pass things along you check them out. Be reasonable about your expectations about people's time. Try not to think less of people who get many followers on Twitter because often they've earned it in some other medium. Be flexible about how people choose to use these tools because that's what enables them to evolve in exciting ways. And finally if you're trying to get a commercial message out there, do it openly and be sensitive to how people are going to take it in any given forum or environment. That was a great talk, guys. And yeah, I think that the more people can take those pieces of advice to heart, the better a future that we can see in social networks. Guys, let's go around the table.
Brad: I’m Brad Williams from WebDevStudios and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba.
Brad: I'm Brad Williams from WebDevStudios and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba .
Patrick: I am Patrick O’Keefe of the of the iFroggy network ifroggy.com and you can find me on Twitter @iFroggy.
Patrick: I am Patrick O'Keefe of the of the iFroggy network ifroggy.com and you can find me on Twitter @iFroggy .
Stephan: I’m Stephan Segraves. You can find me on Twitter @ssegraves and my blog is badice.com.
斯蒂芬：我是斯蒂芬·塞格雷夫斯。 You can find me on Twitter @ssegraves and my blog is badice.com.
Kevin: And you can follow SitePoint on Twitter @ssegraves. I though we’d just throw you a few extra followers there Stephan.
Kevin: And you can follow SitePoint on Twitter @ssegraves. I though we'd just throw you a few extra followers there Stephan.
Stephan: And add them to a list too.
Stephan: And add them to a list too.
Kevin: You can follow SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom and you can follow me on Twitter @sentience. You can visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast for the latest episode and email us at podcast@sitepoint.com.
Kevin: You can follow SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom and you can follow me on Twitter @sentience . You can visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast for the latest episode and email us at podcast@sitepoint.com .
This episode of the SitePoint Podcast was produced by Karn Broad and I’m Kevin Yank. Bye for now!
This episode of the SitePoint Podcast was produced by Karn Broad and I'm Kevin Yank. 暂时再见！
Theme music by Mike Mella.
Mike Mella的主题音乐。
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翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-37-social-media-bad-ugly/
