Episode 52 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week, Kevin Yank (@sentience) and Patrick O’Keefe (@iFroggy) are joined by Derek Powazek (@fraying), co-creator of JPG Magazine and creator of Fray to discuss the care and feeding of web communities. A complete transcript of the interviews is provided below.
SitePoint Podcast的 第52集现已发布！ 本周，Kevin Yank( @sentience )和Patrick O'Keefe( @iFroggy )与JPG杂志的共同创建者和Fray的创建者Derek Powazek ( @fraying )一起参加了讨论网络社区的照料和供养。 下面提供了采访的完整笔录。
You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:
您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：
SitePoint Podcast #52: Building Communities with Derek Powazek, Part 1 (MP3, 34.2MB)
SitePoint Podcast＃52：与Derek Powazek建立社区，第1部分 (MP3，34.2MB)
Kevin: March 12th, 2010. Derek Powazek returns to discuss his other great love, the care and feeding of web communities. I’m Kevin Yank and this is the SitePoint Podcast #52: Building Communities with Derek Powazek, Part 1.
凯文(Kevin)： 2010年3月12日。德里克·波瓦泽克(Derek Powazek)回来讨论他的另一个伟大的挚爱，网络社区的照顾和供养。 我是Kevin Yank，这是SitePoint播客＃52：与Derek Powazek建立社区，第1部分。
We last spoke with Derek Powazek exactly one month ago in Podcast #48, when we discussed his take on the divide between digital publishing and print. Although you might say publishing is Derek’s day job right now, he has a whole other career in web communities. He wrote a book called “Design for Community: The Art of Connecting Real People in Virtual Places” in 2001. You can find out more about Derek at powazek.com.
我们上个月恰好在一个月前的48号播客中与Derek Powazek进行了交谈，当时我们讨论了他对数字出版和印刷之间的分歧的看法。 尽管您可能会说出版现在是Derek的日常工作，但他在网络社区中还有其他职业。 他在2001年写了一本书，名为《社区设计：在虚拟场所联系真实的人的艺术》。您可以在powazek.com上找到有关Derek的更多信息。
Also with us today, SitePoint Podcast regular co-host Patrick O’Keefe, who it just so happens also wrote a book about web communities called Managing Online Forums. You can read more about it at managingonlineforums.com.
今天也与我们一起的是SitePoint Podcast的定期联合主持人Patrick O'Keefe，他也写了一本关于网络社区的书，叫做《 管理在线论坛》 。 您可以在manageonlineforums.com上了解有关它的更多信息。
Today, we’re going to talk about community. Now, this is a big conversation, so let’s not waste any more time. I’d like to start right off by thanking Derek Powazek for coming back for another chat.
今天，我们将讨论社区。 现在，这是一次很大的对话，所以我们不要再浪费时间了。 首先，我要感谢Derek Powazek再次聊天。
Derek: My pleasure.
德里克：我很高兴。
Kevin: Derek, where did your interest in communities originate? I mean do you remember when people first started coming to you for advice on community building?
凯文：德里克，您对社区的兴趣来自哪里？ 我的意思是，您还记得当人们第一次向您寻求社区建设建议时吗？
Derek: Oh man, well, mostly I was just interested in the Web, and community is what made the Web interesting. So I think I fell into the Web in 1995 just as I was about to graduate from college in photojournalism actually—I thought I was going to work in newspapers for the rest of my life (ha, ha, ha, ha, yeah). But what the Web presented as an opportunity was this way to do the same media stuff that we were doing in newspapers and magazines, but do it in a way where everyone could truly participate, which was not how newspapers worked. So the interesting thing about the Web from the get-go was that collaboration amongst people, so I just threw myself into it and started doing experiments working for people doing interesting things. I wound up working at Hotwired in the very early days there, Electric Minds with Howard Reinhold who wrote the book called “The Virtual Community”, which is the seminal book about this stuff. And I guess in 1999 when I was working at Blogger I got the opportunity to write a book about virtual community, and I think that was the moment where I thought, oh wait, I have been doing this a while, I might’ve picked up a few things.
德里克(Derek)：哦，好吧，主要是我只是对Web感兴趣，而社区正是使Web有趣的原因。 因此，我想我在1995年即将毕业于新闻摄影专业的大学时就跌入了互联网-我以为我一生都会在报纸上工作(哈，哈，哈，哈，哈，是的)。 但是，网络提供的机会是这种方式来做我们在报纸和杂志上所做的相同的媒体工作，但是以每个人都可以真正参与的方式来做，而不是报纸的工作方式。 因此，从一开始就对Web感兴趣的是人与人之间的协作，所以我就投入了自己的工作，并开始为从事有趣工作的人们进行实验。 我刚开始在Hotwired工作，Electric Minds和Howard Reinhold在一起工作，他写了名为“虚拟社区”的书，这是关于这方面的开创性著作。 我想在1999年的时候我工作在博客我写一本关于虚拟社区的机会，我认为这是在那里我想，哦，等等的那一刻，我一直在做了一段时间，我可能已经回升几件事。
Kevin: So that was “Design for Community, The Art of Connecting Real People in Virtual Places”?
凯文：那就是“社区设计，将虚拟人连接到虚拟场所的艺术”吗？
Derek: Correct; published by New Riders in 2001.
德里克：正确； 由New Riders于2001年出版。
Kevin: Okay. And did that say everything? Is that still a definitive work today? (laugh)
凯文：好的。 那说明了一切吗？ 今天仍然是确定的工作吗？ (笑)
Derek: Well, it’s out of print, so I could say yes, but no. I think— You know, I went through the book the other day to see how many of the example sites I talked about almost a decade ago were still in existence, and I think it was Slashdot and MetaFilter. I interviewed Matt Haughey and CmdrTaco from Slashdot for the book, and those two sites are still going strong. But a lot of the other ones are dead, which makes the book feel very dated. But I think the core ideas of community are unchanged because the technology around it changes, but people’s human nature changes very, very slowly.
德里克：嗯，它已经绝版了，所以我可以说是，但不是。 我想-您知道，前几天我浏览了这本书，以了解大约十年前我所谈论的示例站点仍然存在，我认为是Slashdot和MetaFilter 。 我采访了Slashdot的Matt Haughey和CmdrTaco撰写了这本书，而这两个站点仍然发展强劲。 但是其他很多书都死了，这使这本书显得很过时了。 但是我认为社区的核心思想没有改变，因为围绕它的技术在变化，但是人们的人性变化非常非常缓慢。
Kevin: Sure. So people who come to you for advice are either coming to you for advice on creating a community where none exists or they have problems with the care and feeding of their existing communities. Is creating a new community still the done thing today? Is that still something that people want to do a lot?
凯文：好的。 因此，向您寻求建议的人们要么向您寻求关于建立一个不存在社区的建议，或者他们在照顾和喂养现有社区方面遇到问题。 今天建立新社区仍然是成事吗？ 人们仍然想做很多事情吗？
Derek: Well, the first thing I tell people who come to me with this is you can’t create a community, you can only create a system, an environment, a hangout. And if you’re very, very lucky, people will adopt it and they’ll self-identify as a community eventually, but it takes time and effort and work and it’s very, very difficult. What I think is different in the year 2010 than a decade ago is that, well, a) for a long time the idea of virtual community in and of itself was controversial. You get into a lot of debates with elbow-patch sociologists who say “Oh, you know, there’s no such thing as virtual community; it’s just people on the computer.” And you don’t have to have that argument as much anymore. Like we all understand that the Internet is a part of the fabric of our lives; it’s a part of our social structures. And so saying that there is community that happens online, there’s community that happens offline, and they overlap, is now obvious, and I think that’s a great thing.
德里克(Derek)：好吧，我首先要告诉来此的人是您无法创建社区，只能创建系统，环境和视频群聊。 而且，如果您非常非常幸运，人们会采用它，并最终将自己标识为一个社区，但是这需要时间，精力和工作，而且非常非常困难。 我认为2010年与十年前的不同之处在于：a)长期以来，关于虚拟社区本身的观点一直是有争议的。 您会遇到很多与肘部社会学家有关的辩论，他们说：“哦，您知道，没有虚拟社区之类的东西。 只是计算机上的人。” 而且您不必再像以前那样争论了。 就像我们所有人都知道的那样，互联网是我们生活的一部分。 这是我们社会结构的一部分。 所以说存在在线发生的社区，存在离线发生的社区，并且它们相互重叠，这是显而易见的，我认为这是一件了不起的事情。
The other thing is, ten years ago, if you really wanted to get the people in your audience to talk to each other you really had to create your own platform to do it, and so everybody was making their own site and their own … trying to foster their own community and blah, blah, blah. Nowadays there’s so much social infrastructure available on the Net that if you’re just starting out it’s a lot easier to find where the people you’ve identified as your community, where they are, right, so you can go to Flickr and start a group, you can go to Facebook and start a fan page or a group. There’s all this existing infrastructure now that wasn’t there before. And that’s a great service to organizations that want to find their people. I think one of the greatest things that the Web has given us is the ability to connect our audience to talk to each other in a way that they never were before, and it’s easy to forget that that’s actually a fairly new concept in the world.
另一件事是，十年前，如果您真的想让听众中的人们互相交谈，您确实必须创建自己的平台来做到这一点，因此每个人都在建立自己的网站和自己的平台……尝试养育自己的社区，等等，等等，等等。 如今，网络上有太多可用的社交基础架构，因此，如果您只是刚开始，那么找到您所标识的社区的位置要容易得多，对了，所以您可以去Flickr并开始群组，您可以转到Facebook并启动粉丝页面或群组。 现在所有这些现有的基础架构都没有了。 对于希望找到自己的员工的组织来说，这是一项很棒的服务。 我认为网络给我们带来的最伟大的事情之一就是能够以前所未有的方式连接观众之间进行交流，并且很容易忘记这实际上是一个相当新的概念。
Kevin: We have with us today Patrick O’Keefe, a regular co-host on the podcast. Patrick wrote a book called Managing Online Forums. And as you say, the infrastructure, you used to sort of bring it yourself when you wanted to create a community, and more often than not that took the form of building a forum. But nowadays it is much easier in many cases to create a Facebook group or create an equivalent on some other social network. And Patrick, I’m sure you have some thoughts on this as well. Are there cases where building a forum is still the right approach today, or at the risk of—
凯文：我们今天有播客的定期联合主持人Patrick O'Keefe。 帕特里克(Patrick)写了一本书，名为《 管理在线论坛》 。 正如您所说，在您想要创建社区时，您曾经经常将基础结构本身带给自己，而通常以建立论坛的形式。 但是如今，在许多情况下，创建一个Facebook组或在其他社交网络上创建一个同等的对象要容易得多。 帕特里克(Patrick)，我敢肯定，您对此也有一些想法。 在某些情况下，建立论坛今天仍然是正确的做法，还是冒着以下风险：
Patrick: Answer carefully! Just kidding.
帕特里克：仔细回答！ 开玩笑。
Kevin: I know you have a relatively new book on this Patrick, what is the place of forums in today’s social Web? Derek, I’d like to hear your thoughts.
凯文：我知道您对此Patrick有一本比较新的书，在当今的社交网络中论坛的位置是什么？ 德里克，我想听听你的想法。
Derek: So, here’s a case study. When Heather and I wanted to create a place to honor photographers we created JPG Magazine. And so we looked at who are our friends who are photographers, where are they hanging out? And they were hanging out at Flickr, so we started by creating a Flickr group, and that’s where we got the ball rolling and people started talking and meeting each other. We created the JPG website to host the magazine, but we were still really living in the Flickr, we were kind of this digital hermit crab where we were using Flickr for the social stuff, and then spreading out we actually used Gmail to accept submissions. And we used basically any tool out there we could use. And when the community had enough momentum behind it, that’s when we started our own site and invited people in to use the platform that we had designed specifically for this task. And so I think there’s a good model there of first going to where your community is already and fostering that discussion. And then if you get the critical mass then you can kind of strike out on your own. If you can’t get the critical mass then you haven’t lost anything, you’ve just interacted with your community a little bit and learned some things and can move on. So I think there’s still a place for good old fashioned forums, good old fashioned creating of social software for a specific purpose, but I think we now have the added ability of kind of testing the waters first.
德里克：所以，这是一个案例研究。 当希瑟和我想建立一个纪念摄影师的地方时，我们创建了JPG Magazine 。 因此，我们观察了谁是摄影师的朋友，他们在哪里闲逛？ 他们在Flickr闲逛，所以我们首先创建了一个Flickr小组，在那里，我们如鱼得水，人们开始谈论和见面。 我们创建了JPG网站来托管该杂志，但我们仍然真正生活在Flickr中，我们有点像这种数字寄居蟹，我们在其中使用Flickr进行社交活动，然后扩展到我们实际上使用Gmail接受提交的内容。 我们基本上使用了所有可以使用的工具。 当社区拥有足够的动力时，那就是我们启动自己的网站并邀请人们使用我们专门为此任务设计的平台的时候。 因此，我认为这里有一个很好的模式，那就是首先进入您所在社区已经存在的地方，并促进这种讨论。 然后，如果您达到临界质量，则可以自行删除。 如果您无法达到临界质量，那么您就什么都没有损失，您只是与社区进行了一点互动，并学到了一些东西并且可以继续前进。 因此，我认为仍有很多地方可以举办老式的论坛，也可以为特定目的创建老式的社交软件，但是我认为我们现在具有首先测试水域的附加功能。
Patrick: I think that’s a great point. I think it relates to the answer you gave about the tools in general and how they’ve evolved. I’ve been managing online communities since 2000, and I know you go farther back than that, so we’re kind of old-timers in this stuff. I remember the first version of phpBB, for example, stuff like that. And at the time that was like, wow, wow, accounts, who is online, what is this technology? But I think that it’s tools, and I think that’s the value of tools, that people who start today maybe don’t fully appreciate, as much as we might, just the ease of use and the ease of just simply jumping in and signing on to this site where there might already be a community like a Facebook or even a MySpace or Flickr or whatever, where there already is a group of people engaged and interested in a certain topic. And then I don’t think that’s a replacement for your own hosted community, but as you said, I think it’s important to find the base, and whether that be a company who has a following and maybe has a prelaunch community, a private invite sort of thing going on, where people are coming in before it launches and then they launch. It’s important to launch with some form of momentum, and forums to me are just part of the landscape, I think, we have all these tools, part of the social media landscape, and forums are just one part of it and they relate to the others. But it always depends on your need and what you want to get out of it, what resources you can dedicate, because forums are, as you’ve found, and everyone who’s manages forums has found, are time consuming. And so it’s just evaluating the tools and making the right decision I think.
帕特里克：我认为这很重要。 我认为这与您对工具的总体回答以及工具的发展方式有关。 自2000年以来，我一直在管理在线社区，而且我知道您可以做的远不止于此，所以我们在这方面有些老套。 我记得例如phpBB的第一个版本。 当时，哇，哇，帐户，谁在线，这是什么技术？ 但是我认为这是工具，我认为这是工具的价值，就象我们今天开始的人们一样，可能并没有完全理解使用的便利性以及只是简单地加入并登录的便利性到这个网站，那里可能已经有一个像Facebook或MySpace或Flickr之类的社区，或者已经有一群对特定主题感兴趣的人。 然后，我认为这并不能替代您自己的托管社区，但是正如您所说，我认为重要的是要找到基础，以及这是否是一家拥有以下社区并且可能拥有预发布社区的公司，以及私人邀请诸如此类的事情，人们在发射之前先进入那里，然后发射。 以某种形式的势头启动很重要，对我来说，论坛只是一部分，我认为，我们拥有所有这些工具，是社交媒体领域的一部分，而论坛只是其中的一部分，并且与其他。 但这总是取决于您的需求以及您要从中获得什么，可以投入哪些资源，因为您所发现的论坛以及所有管理该论坛的人都在浪费时间。 因此，它只是评估工具并做出我认为正确的决定。
Kevin: It’s really interesting to think of forums as something that you move into when you reach a critical mass nowadays. Because I’m sure as anyone knows there’s nothing sadder than happening across a forum on the web that has more forums than posts.
凯文(Kevin)：将论坛视为当今达到临界点时所涉足的事情，真的很有趣。 因为我敢肯定，就像任何人都知道的那样，没有比在网络上的论坛上发生比在帖子多的论坛上发生更可悲的事情了。
Derek: Oh god, yes. And if you’re a business that really says something about your business if you make a park and nobody comes to play in it, then you’ve miscalculated somehow.
德里克：哦，天哪。 而且，如果您是一家真正的公司，但如果您制作了一个公园却没有人参与其中，那肯定会说一些您的业务，那么您就算错了。
I wanted to add one other great case study about this, which is actually mentioned in my book as well, and still exists, so I should have listed that too. But it’s the TiVo community where when TiVo came out years ago just some random fan started a bulletin board, a forum software system, for people to talk about TiVo, and they had people very excited about it. And when TiVo the corporation found out about it they had this choice, they could either— they could have come in and shut down and been heavy-handed and tried to stop the people from talking about their product or force them to come over to a forum that they created, or they could invest in and slightly co-opt the existing forum, and they smartly decided to do the latter. So they came in and said “Hey guys, we love that you’re talking about our product, could we give you some money every month and in exchange could you use our actual logo at the top of the page? And would you mind if our engineers actually came onto the system and answered questions directly? And can we invite people to be part of our private beta here?” And so instead of fighting the naturally occurring community they just came in and sponsored it, and I think that was a brilliant decision on their part.
我想添加一个关于此的另一个很好的案例研究，这实际上也在我的书中提到，并且仍然存在，因此我也应该列出来。 但这是TiVo社区，几年前TiVo出现时，只是一个随机的粉丝创建了一个公告板，一个论坛软件系统，供人们谈论TiVo，他们对此感到非常兴奋。 当TiVo公司发现这一问题时，他们可以选择这个方案，他们可以-他们可能进来并关闭并且被粗暴地对待，并试图阻止人们谈论他们的产品，或者强迫他们走上一条道路。他们创建的论坛，或者他们可以投资并稍微加入现有的论坛，然后他们明智地决定采用后者。 因此，他们进来说：“嘿，我们喜欢您在谈论我们的产品，我们可以每月给您一些钱吗，作为交换，您可以在页面顶部使用我们的实际徽标吗？ 您是否介意我们的工程师是否真的进入系统并直接回答了问题？ 我们可以邀请人们加入我们的私人Beta版吗？” 因此，他们没有与自然发生的社区作斗争，而是加入并赞助了该社区，我认为这对他们而言是一个绝妙的决定。
Patrick: And the great thing about that sort of situation is that it’s something that already exists and already is powerfully supportive of whatever it is you’re doing. It is making you money and at the same time you’re not really spending money it. You don’t have to dedicate someone to manage this community, it’s already there. It reminds me, I run photoshopforums.com, and I gave a talk at Blog World Expo recently, and after I did and actually cited the site during the talk, and after I did the person from Adobe came up and just said thank you. And I thought that was a nice thing to do. And it’s just kind of cool to see and I think gaming companies are really doing a good job at that sort of thing where they encourage— a lot of gaming companies I’ve seen, encourage third party communities, link to them, sort of spread the love around a bit knowing that communities that are out there supporting the game, they aren’t encouraging mass piracy—and there’s plenty of those communities out there despite the bleak picture some would paint—they’re doing a lot for your business and they’re helping out without you investing in them. So it’s something that I think smart companies like TiVo are encouraging.
帕特里克(Patrick)：这种情况的妙处在于它已经存在，并且已经为您所做的一切提供了有力的支持。 它在为您赚钱，而同时您并没有真正在花钱。 您不必专人管理这个社区，因为它已经存在。 这让我想起了我运行photoshopforums.com的经历，最近我在Blog World Expo上发表了演讲，在演讲之后我做了并实际引用了该网站，然后在我这样做之后，来自Adobe的人走了过来，只是说谢谢。 我认为这是一件好事。 看到这很酷，我认为游戏公司在他们鼓励的事情上确实做得很好–我见过的很多游戏公司都在鼓励第三方社区，与他们建立联系，并在一定程度上传播周围的热爱者知道附近有支持游戏的社区，他们并没有鼓励大规模盗版活动，尽管有些人会描绘出惨淡的景象，但仍有很多社区在为您的业务和工作做了大量工作，他们在没有您投资的情况下提供帮助。 因此，我认为像TiVo这样的明智公司对此感到鼓舞。
Derek: And here’s what TiVo did—because it is a business decision—they actually said “We’re going to pay you a monthly stipend for us to sponsor this community forum, but in return we ask you to do this one thing which is don’t let people talk about how to steal our service. So basically talk about hacking the box, talk about opening it up and replacing the hard drive and doing whatever the heck you want with it—you bought it, it’s yours, you want to violate the warranty, do it. But any discussion about how to get around our $10 a month subscription fee, basically that’s going to kill this company. So that’s the one the thing we ask you not to foster, don’t host those conversations.” And I think that was a pretty good deal for the forum. So they said sure, they took the money and they told the community this is the one thing you can’t talk about for obvious reasons. Those conversations went to other sites. But I think it’s tivocommunity.com is still like the place to go talk about how to hack your TiVo, how to put in a new hard drive, where do you get the HD models, etc.
Derek：这是TiVo所做的-因为这是一项业务决策-他们实际上说：“我们将每月向您支付助学金，以便我们赞助这个社区论坛，但作为回报，我们要求您做这件事，这是不要让人们谈论如何窃取我们的服务。 因此，基本上来说，是谈论如何破解机箱，谈论如何打开机箱，更换硬盘驱动器，以及如何随心所欲地完成它—您购买了它，这是您的，您想违反保修的规定，就去做。 但是任何有关如何绕开我们每月10美元的订阅费的讨论，基本上都会杀死这家公司。 因此，这就是我们要求您不要培养，不主持这些对话的一件事。” 我认为对于论坛来说，这是一笔不错的交易。 因此，他们说肯定了，他们拿走了钱，并告诉社区，出于明显的原因，这是您不能谈论的一件事。 这些谈话转到了其他站点。 但是我认为它仍然是tivocommunity.com ，像是谈论如何破解TiVo，如何放入新硬盘，在哪里获得HD型号等的地方。
Kevin: That’s a really powerful example of trusting a community to work in the best interests of something that they’re passionate about. I mean so many companies would have come into that situation and said, “Look, our product comes with a license agreement that says you won’t break open the box, so if we’re going to officially endorse something that’s where we need to draw the line.” But they trusted the community and said, look, the reason that license is in effect for our business is that we don’t want you to steal the product that makes us money. To be able to trust them to draw that line and at the point where it will impact the product that they are passionate about, I think it’s a really good lesson.
凯文(Kevin)：这是一个非常有力的例子，它可以信任社区，让他们为自己热衷的事物的最大利益而工作。 我的意思是，那么多公司都会遇到这种情况，并说：“看，我们的产品带有许可协议，说您不会打破常规，因此，如果我们要正式认可某些我们需要采取的措施，划清界线。” 但是他们信任社区，并说，看，许可证对我们的业务有效的原因是我们不希望您窃取能够赚钱的产品。 为了能够信任他们划清界限，并在一定程度上影响他们热衷的产品，我认为这是一个非常好的教训。
Derek: The opposite lesson is Apple who sued a bunch of rumor sites and basically took people who were diehard fans and made them hate Apple for suing the place where they were just talking about the products they loved. Apple, actually, for as much as I love their products, is an incredibly secretive company, and outright hostile to some of the more organic community things that have sprung up around them.
德里克：相反的教训是苹果公司起诉了很多谣言网站，并且基本上把那些顽固的粉丝带走了，并使他们讨厌苹果公司起诉他们只是在谈论自己喜欢的产品的地方。 实际上，就我所钟爱的产品而言，苹果公司是一家极其秘密的公司，并且对周围涌现的一些更为有机的社区充满敌意。
Kevin: Most recently with the just announced iPad, there was the site that posted a bounty for confirmation of rumors prior to the product’s announcement, and Apple went in and said no, we’ll have none of that.
凯文(Kevin)：最近，在刚刚发布的iPad上，有一个网站发布了悬赏金，以确认该产品发布之前的谣言，而苹果公司则表示不接受，我们将一无所有。
Derek: Yeah, and Gawker was being provocative in that example, and so they were kind of baiting the— teasing the bear in that case.
德里克(Derek)：是的，在这个例子中，高克(Gawker)极具挑衅性，因此他们有点bai之以鼻-在那种情况下取笑熊。
Kevin: Well, they knew what would happen of course.
凯文：嗯，他们当然知道会发生什么。
Derek: But in so many of these cases if Apple’s lawyers had just simply shut up, nothing bad would have happened, and lots of good could have happened.
德里克(Derek)：但是在许多情况下，如果苹果的律师只是简单地闭嘴，就不会有坏事发生，而很多好事也会发生。
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
凯文：是的，是的。
Patrick: The great thing about the TiVo example is that it does draw that line, because when you ask a community to change for you, in the case of TiVo, to accept this money and this is what we want you to do, it’s important to know the line to not stifle them and feel like the company’s taking them over. And I think that’s maybe what Apple is kind of doing with those rumor sites for really no good reason, because interest isn’t piracy it’s just interest. And TiVo knew that line and that’s why it’s a great example I think.
帕特里克(Patrick)： TiVo示例的伟大之处在于它确实能划清界限，因为当您要求社区为您做出改变时(例如TiVo)，我们接受这笔钱，这就是我们希望您做的，这很重要知道这条线不会扼杀他们，并觉得公司正在接管他们。 而且我认为，这也许是苹果在没有充分理由的情况下与那些谣言网站做的事情，因为兴趣不是盗版，而是兴趣。 TiVo知道这条线，这就是我认为这是一个很好的例子的原因。
Derek: Yeah, I think TiVo was lucky enough to have one guy who was kind of their webmaster at the time, his name is Richard Bullwinkle, who saw this and understood the opportunity and sold his superiors on this idea of sponsoring the group, and wound up being promoted to like chief evangelist or something, and that became his job.
Derek：是的，我认为TiVo很幸运，当时有一个像他这样的网站管理员的人，他的名字叫Richard Bullwinkle，他看到了这一点并了解了机会，并以赞助该组织的想法卖掉了他的上司，并且最终被提升为首席传教士之类的东西，这成了他的工作。
Patrick: It was either be fired if this doesn’t work out, or be promoted if it does.
帕特里克(Patrick)：如果无法解决 ，要么被解雇，要么被解除。
Derek: Exactly.
德里克：是的 。
Kevin: This actually brings to mind Get Satisfaction, which seems to me an attempt to formalize this process that people can go to Get Satisfaction and create their own community around any product they happen to own or to need support for. You can just go on there and if you want to talk about a particular product you just fill it in and instant community with questions and answers and bug reports and all that. And if that community grows enough, the company that actually made that product can come in and officially give it the stamp of approval and add staff members who are flagged as officially speaking for the company. But that doesn’t need to happen, and yet it’s formalized that process.
凯文(Kevin)：这实际上让我想到了“ 获得满意度” ，在我看来，这是一种尝试使这一过程正式化的尝试，人们可以去获得满意度并围绕他们碰巧拥有或需要支持的任何产品创建自己的社区。 您可以继续进行下去，如果您想谈论某个特定产品，只需在产品中填写问题，答案，错误报告以及所有这些内容即可。 如果该社区的成长足够，那么实际生产该产品的公司就可以加入并正式给它盖章，并添加标记为该公司正式发言的员工。 但这并不需要发生，但是它已经使该过程正式化了。
Derek: Yep. Yep. I think you’re absolutely right. And it’s no surprise that Get Satisfaction was started by people who’ve been doing the Web for a long time and have just seen this happen over and over again in forums and blog comments where when the company actually comes in and participates the tone changes, everybody feels happier about what’s going on. It works. So I actually really like Get Satisfaction and we use it for MagCloud and for projects. I think it’s a great product.
德里克：是的 。 是的 我认为你是绝对正确的。 毫不奇怪的是，Get Satisfaction是由已经从事Web已有很长时间的人们开始的，他们只是在论坛和博客评论中一遍又一遍地看到这种情况的发生，在那里，公司实际上是在什么时候出现并参与了音调变化的，每个人都对发生的事情感到更开心。 有用。 所以我实际上非常喜欢Get Satisfaction，我们将其用于MagCloud和项目。 我认为这是一个很棒的产品。
Kevin: What are your thoughts on closed communities? Because I’ve seen companies like TiVo—but not at all like TiVo as well—but a company in the place of TiVo could have come in and said “Alright, we’re going to sponsor this community, but in order to get access to it you need to put in the serial number of the TiVo that you own. It’s for TiVo owners only.” Is that ever a good idea?
凯文：您对封闭社区有何看法？ 因为我见过像TiVo这样的公司，但根本不像TiVo那样，但是代替TiVo的公司可能会进来并说：“好吧，我们将赞助这个社区，但是为了获得访问权限为此，您需要输入自己拥有的TiVo的序列号。 它仅适用于TiVo所有者。” 那曾经是个好主意吗？
Derek: I think it’s an important option to keep on the table. I think too often we default to thinking about communities as necessarily open to all, but that goes against the very nature of community. The fact is that if you define the word ‘community’ it means a group of people, and if there’s a group of people it means there are other people who are not those people, right? There’s in groups and out groups, so all communities exclude someone, and that’s okay because that someone who gets excluded can be a part of another community that excludes someone else. It’s part of the nature of community to understand that it’s exclusive. And I just bring that up because so often the dramas and the problems that you have to endure and manage and design for, as somebody who manages community, are there because it’s a public stage. The trolls and flamers and griefers are performing, right. It’s a performance that needs an audience. And if you take away the audience you lose a lot of those problems. So I’m actually a big fan of, if you can do it, like if you can close a community to the extent that it really includes the people who it’s designed for, and does not include the people it’s not, it can actually be very, very beneficial for the health of the community, and dramatically lower the costs of managing it.
德里克：我认为这是一个重要的选择。 我认为我们经常会默认认为社区必须向所有人开放，但这违背了社区的本质。 事实是，如果您定义“社区”一词，则表示一群人，如果有一群人，则意味着还有其他人不是这些人，对吗？ 有团体和团体，所以所有社区都排除某个人，这没关系，因为被排除的某人可以是另一个社区的一部分，而另一个社区又将其他人排除在外。 了解社区的排他性是社区性质的一部分。 我之所以提出这一点，是因为作为社区管理者，您经常需要忍受，管理和设计的戏剧和问题就在这里，因为这是一个公共舞台。 巨魔，喷火器和悲伤者正在表演，对。 这是一场需要观众的表演。 如果带走观众，您将失去很多这些问题。 所以我实际上是一个超级粉丝，如果您能做到，就好像您可以关闭某个社区时，只要它确实包含了为其设计的人员，而没有包括不是为其设计的人员，那么实际上对社区的健康非常非常有益，并且大大降低了社区的管理成本。
Kevin: And in the case of spammers the audience they’re performing for is the search engines.
凯文：对于垃圾邮件发送者来说，他们所追求的受众是搜索引擎。
Derek: That’s right.
德里克：是的。
Kevin: A closed community is closed to the search engines almost necessarily as well.
凯文：一个封闭的社区几乎也对搜索引擎开放。
Derek: That’s right. And I think there are some classic examples of community tools that were put out into the Web really designed for one audience becoming adopted by another and then ruined, right, because the audience that adopted it is just there to play games. So, the Chevy Tahoe campaign comes to mind where—
德里克：是的。 而且我认为有一些经典的社区工具示例已投放到Web中，这些工具确实是为某个受众而设计的，后来被另一受众采用，然后毁了，对，因为采用该社区工具的受众就在那里玩游戏。 因此，雪佛兰(Chevy Tahoe)运动浮现在脑海，
Kevin: Oh, you should definitely cover that for people who aren’t familiar with it.
凯文：哦，您绝对应该为不熟悉它的人讲解。
Derek: Just do a search for Chevy Tahoe. But basically they put out a community tool where you could come and you could create a video ad for the Tahoe, which is this giant gas-sucking SUV. And I just love the idea of a bunch of people at this company sitting around thinking “I know, what everybody really wants to do, everyone on the Internet, they want to make a video ad for our gas-sucking SUV.” So they put these tools out and you could use clips of the car driving around and insert photos, of course only the clips they provided and the photos they provided, and the only place you could really use your voice is you could add some text. So people made these crazy parody ads that said things that they would never actually want to say in a commercial like ‘murder your whole family,’ and ‘destroying the earth one gallon at a time,’ and it took on a life of its own where that was the primary use case of what people were doing there. Now, I think this is an illustrative example for many reasons. But at the core of it I think the problem was they were giving a tool designed for one audience, which is their owners. Tahoe owners probably would have done something very nice with this tool, or maybe at least gotten a kick out of playing with it for a while. But the rest of the Internet had this other reason to play, so that’s one example where if had it been a closed community and you actually had to own one of the cars to play with it, it would have had a very different result.
德里克：只要搜索雪佛兰塔霍。 但基本上，他们推出了一个社区工具，您可以在那里使用该工具，并可以为Tahoe(这是一款大型的吸气SUV)制作视频广告。 我只是喜欢这家公司的一群人围坐在一起思考的想法：“我知道，每个人真正想做什么，互联网上的每个人，他们都想为我们的吸油SUV制作视频广告。” 因此，他们将这些工具放了出来，然后您就可以使用驾车行驶的剪辑并插入照片，当然，只有它们提供的剪辑和提供的照片，唯一真正可以使用声音的地方就是可以添加一些文本。 因此，人们制作了这些疯狂的模仿广告，说出了他们在商业广告中实际上从未想说过的话，例如“谋杀整个家庭”，“一次毁坏一加仑的大地”，而这却冒着自己的生命。那是人们在那里做什么的主要用例。 现在，出于多种原因，我认为这是一个说明性示例。 但从本质上讲，我认为问题在于他们正在提供一种针对受众(即所有者)的工具。 Tahoe所有者可能会使用此工具做得非常好，或者至少在一段时间内没有使用它。 但是互联网的其余部分还有其他原因可以使用，因此这是一个示例，如果它是一个封闭的社区，而您实际上必须拥有其中一辆车才能玩，那么结果会大不相同。
Kevin: Coming back to this idea of setting limits on the community that you’re building in order to define it, when you’re starting up a community I think there’s probably this siren song of what the users—the small number of users you have collected so far—are asking for. And you need to balance that against what your vision of what you originally wanted to build in this community if you’re being purposeful about it. So I’m thinking, for example, you wanted to build a forum for retirees to talk about their lifestyle and the things they do now that they’re in retirement, and you might get a little bit of traction, you know, you get a few dozen users in and conversing, and suddenly they’re asking for new forums to be created to talk about retirement finance and saving up for your retirement, and you didn’t want to talk about … you know, money. And yet it’s tempting to bend to those demands because you can see it as a way of growing your community; the more you do for the people in your community the bigger it will grow, right?
凯文(Kevin)：回到为建立社区设置限制来定义社区的想法，当您启动社区时，我认为这可能是关于用户数量的一声警钟-您的用户数量很少到目前为止已收集-正在要求。 如果您有针对性，则需要在此愿景与您最初希望在该社区中构建的东西之间取得平衡。 因此，我在想，例如，您想为退休人员建立一个论坛，以讨论他们的生活方式以及他们退休后所做的事情，您可能会得到一点牵引力，您知道，您会得到几十个用户进行交谈，突然之间，他们要求创建新的论坛来谈论退休财务和为退休储蓄，而您不想谈论……您知道，金钱。 但是，您很容易屈服于这些需求，因为您可以将其视为发展社区的一种方式。 您为社区中的人们做的越多，它的规模就会越大，对吗？
Derek: Yep. Yeah.
德里克：是的 。 是的
Kevin: So where is that balance?
凯文：那平衡在哪里？
Derek: I think you’re right, it is a balance, and there’s no one right way. If I was running a site that was faced with that issue the math goes something like this: how easy is it for me to implement what they’re asking for? Is it a huge time commitment, you know, it’s going to put us off developing five other things that we think are core to our mission to do this one thing people are asking for? That’s on one side of the equation. So if it’s high cost or low cost to the organization.
德里克：我认为您是对的，这是平衡，没有正确的方法。 如果我在运行一个遇到该问题的网站，那么数学将是这样的：对我来说，实现他们的要求有多容易？ 您知道吗，这是一个巨大的时间投入吗？这会使我们推迟开发其他五件事，而这五件事是我们使命的核心，而这是人们要求的？ 那是方程式的一方面。 因此，对于组织来说是高成本还是低成本。
And on the other side is the more philosophical issue is does this take us off mission or not? So if you start a site devoted to talking about cats and everybody wants to talk about dogs you may have a much more serious problem. Right, it would be easy, it might take five minutes to create a new forum for everybody to talk about dogs, but then maybe you’re just running the wrong site. So then it becomes a question of why are we here. A great example of that is—oh god, this is way back—but you know the Leggs pantyhose?
另一方面，更哲学的问题是这是否使我们脱离了使命？ 因此，如果您建立一个专门讨论猫的网站，而每个人都想谈论狗，那么您可能会遇到更严重的问题。 没错，这很容易，可能需要五分钟才能创建一个新的论坛供大家谈论狗，但是随后您可能只是在运行错误的网站。 因此，这就成为我们为什么要在这里的问题。 一个很好的例子是-上帝啊，这已经过去了-但是你知道Leggs连裤袜吗？
Kevin: Yeah.
凯文：是的。
Derek: They were a very early experimenter in online community, they put up some online forums, they got used, they got adopted, they had all these members, it was very exciting for them. But then they realized they had actually been adopted by the cross-dressing community, and all of the people talking about these pantyhose were men. So now they have this issue, right, of well do we continue to foster this, which—and these are people buying our product—but it’s not exactly on message for us, like it’s not the community we were going after. And I think they kind of moved away from it slowly; I don’t think they freaked out and shut it down. But it’s a great example of how far off course do you want to allow the community to go.
德里克(Derek)：他们是在线社区的早期实验者，他们建立了一些在线论坛，被习惯了，被采用了，他们拥有了所有这些成员，这对他们来说非常令人兴奋。 但是后来他们意识到自己实际上已经被异装癖者所采用，谈论这些连裤袜的所有人都是男人。 因此，现在他们遇到了这个问题，对，我们很好，我们会继续促进这一点，这些人(这些人是在购买我们的产品)，但这并不是在向我们传达确切的信息，就像这不是我们所追求的社区一样。 而且我认为他们有点远离它了。 我不认为他们吓坏了并关闭了它。 但这是您想让社区走多远的一个很好的例子。
You know when Flickr was started it was really just about photos, and they faced similar decisions around do we allow artwork, like paintings? Do we allow screenshots? There were people taking screenshots in Second Life that were saying these were photographs because it’s a photograph of a virtual environment, right, so how is taking a screen grab in a virtual environment really that different from clicking a shutter in the real world? So you wind up with very philosophical discussions about what are we building this for. And I think it just has to be made by the people creating the site, and sometimes the decisions you make are unpopular. I know Flickr got a lot of flack. Flickr’s decision was we’ll allow people to add all this stuff, but we’re going to exclude certain things in search results because when people come here to search they’re looking for photos. I think that was a fair decision, but I think it still angered a lot of the community.
您知道Flickr刚开始时实际上只是关于照片的，他们面临着类似的决定，即我们是否允许艺术品如绘画？ 我们可以截图吗？ 在《第二人生》中截图的人说这些是照片，因为这是虚拟环境的照片，对吧，那么在虚拟环境中进行屏幕抓取与单击现实世界中的快门有何不同？ 因此，您最后会进行非常哲学的讨论，以了解我们为此目的是什么。 而且我认为这只能由创建网站的人员来完成，有时您做出的决定并不受欢迎。 我知道Flickr有很多缺点。 Flickr的决定是我们允许人们添加所有这些东西，但是我们将排除搜索结果中的某些内容，因为当人们来这里搜索时，他们正在寻找照片。 我认为这是一个公平的决定，但我仍然认为这激怒了很多社区。
Kevin: Well, there must be a certain point where if you suddenly find yourself at the helm of a wildly successful community that isn’t at all about anything that interests you, if you’re faced between killing the community and setting it free. I’m sure there are some great cases of communities that have been given their freedom. Like that Leggs community, I could imagine. I’m sure that those cross-dressing men who like to wear pantyhose are out there discussing that somewhere now.
凯文：好吧，一定有一个观点，就是如果您突然陷入一个非常成功的社区的掌舵之中，那根本就关乎您不感兴趣的任何事情，如果您面临的是杀死社区和让社区自由之间的冲突。 我敢肯定，有一些伟大的社区已经获得了自由。 我可以想象像那个Leggs社区。 我敢肯定，那些喜欢穿连裤袜的异性恋男人现在正在那里讨论。
Derek: Oh, I guarantee it.
德里克：哦，我保证。
Kevin: It would have been a shame for that forum to suddenly close its doors overnight and for them to have to find a way to reorganize themselves on their own, whereas I’m sure there’s someone in that community who would have loved to have been given the keys and said here you go, pay the hosting bills and its yours.
凯文：该论坛突然关门过夜，让他们不得不寻找一种自行重组的方式，这真是可耻的，而我敢肯定，该社区中有人会很乐意成为给定钥匙并说您要走了，就付托管费和您的托管费。
Derek: Yeah, I think that’s a good solution. I mean it also depends on the specifics very much. So I created one site called Kvetch. Kvetch is online still now but in a different incarnation. Kvetch is a Yiddish word for complain, and when I started it, it was a very simple post box, a lot like Twitter now where you just come and you could complain, you could write like “this happened to me today,” and kind of send it off into one of a few groups. And it was all anonymous and it was kind of the idea was you could get it off your chest like anonymously you could kind of toss this complaint in the pile and then you’d feel better. And they were presented randomly. It was fun, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, a lot of people used it for what I was hoping, but it was also taken over by some misuses. We had death threats in it. This was before Columbine, but we had like “I’m going to blow up my school,” things posted in it. We had personal attacks like “first name, last name is an expletive deleted.” And we had people abusing it to yell at each other, like “whoever posted that last thing is an a-hole!” And so there were legal problems there, like there was actually the potential for a libel suit in that, and there were safety problems where people are going to start making bomb threats on this site, I don’t want it to exist, right? So for a long time I was deleting that stuff, I was pulling it out, and eventually I got tired of that and shut down the site. And that wasn’t a community site that was so near and dear to people’s hearts that it was an outrage that it was shut down. But it was a fun experiment in its time. And so that those were the things that made me decide to shut it down, and it wasn’t just that it was off topic, but it was also dangerous.
德里克：是的，我认为这是一个很好的解决方案。 我的意思是，这也非常取决于具体情况。 因此，我创建了一个名为Kvetch的网站。 Kvetch现在仍然在线，但形式有所不同。 Kvetch是抱怨的意第绪语，当我开始使用它时，它是一个非常简单的邮箱，就像Twitter一样，现在您就来了，您可能会抱怨，您可以这样写：“今天这件事发生在我身上”将其发送给几个小组之一。 这全都是匿名的，这是个主意，就是您可以像匿名一样将它从胸口拿下来，您可以将这种抱怨扔得一团糟，然后您会感觉更好。 他们是随机出现的。 很好玩，等等，等等，等等。 无论如何，很多人用它来实现我的期望，但也被一些误用所取代。 我们里面有死亡威胁。 那是在哥伦拜恩之前发生的，但是我们想“我要炸毁我的学校”，上面写着东西。 我们遭到了人身攻击，例如“名字，姓氏被删除”。 而且我们有人滥用它来互相大喊大叫，例如“谁张贴的最后一件事是一个洞！” 因此，那里存在法律问题，例如实际上可能存在诽谤诉讼，并且存在安全问题，人们将开始在该站点上制造炸弹威胁，我不希望它存在，对吧？ 因此，很长一段时间以来，我一直在删除这些内容，然后将其拔出，最终我对此感到厌倦并关闭了该站点。 那不是一个社区站点，它如此亲密而亲民，以至于被关闭就令人愤慨。 但这是一个有趣的实验。 正是这些使我决定将其关闭的原因，这不仅仅是不合时宜的事情，而且还很危险。
Kevin: What are some of the more common challenges you hear from managers of communities that have been around for a while?
凯文(Kevin)：您从已经存在一段时间的社区经理那里听到哪些最常见的挑战？
Derek: I think the top of the list is that communities that have existed for a while create very strong expectations of what the site is for, what the community is for, how it works, what it does, down to like what color are the links, and you know, where the photos are. And it can become very, very difficult to change once those expectations get set. So I think the biggest problem is how to introduce change into these communities, because change is a part of life—if you stay still you die. So companies get new owners, change hands, introduce new features, change the design, like stuff changes, and so introducing change into static systems is very, very difficult because, as anybody knows who has done this, people react badly to it by default.
德里克(Derek)：我认为最重要的是，已经存在了一段时间的社区对网站的用途，社区的用途，工作方式，工作方式以及对颜色的期望都非常强烈。链接，就知道照片在哪里。 一旦设定了这些期望，它就变得非常非常非常困难。 因此，我认为最大的问题是如何将变革引入这些社区，因为变革是生活的一部分，如果您保持静止就必死。 因此，公司要找到新的所有者，换手，引入新的功能，更改设计(例如进行材料更改)，因此将更改引入静态系统非常非常困难，因为众所周知，这样做的人在默认情况下会对此做出不良React。
Patrick: Yeah, change is a good one because it’s like every little detail, like you said, link color, it’s like … okay. But as far as challenges go I think one of the things that I’ve found in general is as you get bigger you deal with more of the scarier things from like suicide threats and just kind of the weirder things that you deal with that people might threaten and mention, and I don’t need to go into detail. But it just seems like the more people you get the more you’re a platform for that. And you have a lot of people who are opportunists looking to take advantage of some attention, and then you have the legitimate people, and the problem there is that you can’t sort the two, so you have to treat them all the same. I think that’s a challenge that a lot of larger, veteran administrators face. I’m on a list for community managers, it’s called e-mint, so it’s a long-running list on Yahoo! lists, of all platforms—Yahoo! lists, talk about going back, Yahoo! groups, okay. But there was someone who asked about, you know, they had people on the community detailing child-abuse history, and it wasn’t really about what their community was about. But it’s such a delicate thing, it’s such a difficult thing to consider, and the role of managing a community like this, it can be easy at first, although it’s not easy but, you know, it’s a different kind of easy. And then you get to a certain point where it can become really difficult because you’re managing people, and all of these people have these different emotions and mental states, and all the things that can happen. And I think that’s the thing that people are more exposed to when you have a community that you’re controlling, or managing rather, that grows to a certain size. That’s when more of the unfortunate things, the weird things, the uncomfortable things start to happen.
帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，更改是一个很好的选择，因为它就像每个小细节，就像您说的那样，链接颜色，就像……好吧。 但就挑战而言，我认为我普遍发现的一件事是，随着您的成长，您会处理更多的更恐怖的事情，例如自杀威胁，以及您可能会处理的更奇怪的事情。威胁和提及，我无需赘述。 但是似乎您获得的人越多，您获得的平台就越多。 而且您有很多人是机会主义者，他们希望利用某些注意力，然后再有合法的人，问题是您无法对两者进行分类，因此必须一视同仁。 我认为这是许多较大的资深管理员所面临的挑战。 我在社区经理的名单上，叫做e-mint ，因此它在Yahoo!上是一个长期存在的名单。 所有平台上的列表-Yahoo! 列表，谈论回头路，雅虎！ 组，好吧。 但是有人问过，您知道，社区中有人详细介绍了虐待儿童的历史，而这实际上与社区的内容无关。 但这是一件微妙的事情，这是一件很难考虑的事情，而且像这样管理一个社区的角色，起初很容易，尽管这并不容易，但是，你知道，这是另一种简单的事情。 然后到达某个特定点，由于您要管理人，这会变得非常困难，所有这些人都有不同的情感和心理状态，以及所有可能发生的事情。 而且我认为，当您拥有一个由您控制或管理的社区时，人们会更容易接触到这个东西，并且这个社区会发展到一定规模。 那是当更多不幸的事情，奇怪的事情，不幸的事情开始发生的时候。
Derek: Yep. I think that’s true. And the way I look at it is let’s say one percent of the people in the world are actually dangerous psychopaths, this is a thing that exists in the world, so you can run a site for a long time getting bigger and bigger, and never happen to cross into that one percent. But ultimately you will, like it’s only a matter of time. It’s a matter of size, really. The moment your community reaches a certain size, statistically there’s going to be someone who comes in the door who has got problems that don’t have anything to do with the Internet, they have to do with their brain chemistry, or whatever reason people are nuts.
德里克：是的 。 我认为是真的。 我的看法是，假设世界上百分之一的人实际上是危险的精神病患者，这是世界上存在的事物，因此您可以长期经营一个越来越大的网站，而永远不会碰巧碰到那百分之一。 但是最终您会喜欢，只是时间问题。 It's a matter of size, really. The moment your community reaches a certain size, statistically there's going to be someone who comes in the door who has got problems that don't have anything to do with the Internet, they have to do with their brain chemistry, or whatever reason people are nuts.
Patrick: To be kind, right?
Patrick: To be kind, right?
Derek: Yeah. And so you’re going to, if you deal with that community, eventually you’ll deal with that person or people. And if you let them they will suck up every single moment of your community manager’s time. And so it actually becomes a business problem when you’re spending a lot of money on people to manage your community, and they’re really acting as a very, very small group’s version of Deanna Troi.
Derek: Yeah. And so you're going to, if you deal with that community, eventually you'll deal with that person or people. And if you let them they will suck up every single moment of your community manager's time. And so it actually becomes a business problem when you're spending a lot of money on people to manage your community, and they're really acting as a very, very small group's version of Deanna Troi.
Kevin: (chuckle)
Kevin: (chuckle)
Derek: Yep.
Derek: Yep.
Kevin: Sorry, apparently I’m the only Star Trek fan here.
Kevin: Sorry, apparently I'm the only Star Trek fan here.
Derek: Ah ha-ha-ha!
Derek: Ah ha-ha-ha!
Patrick: Uh, yes, yes you are.
Patrick: Uh, yes, yes you are.
Derek: Oh, sorry. Yeah.
Derek: Oh, sorry. 是的
Kevin: Guilty as charged.
Kevin: Guilty as charged.
Derek: Yeah … therapist.
Derek: Yeah … therapist.
Kevin: But right, you don’t want to be paying your community mangers to be…
Kevin: But right, you don't want to be paying your community mangers to be…
Patrick: Babysitters.
Patrick: Babysitters.
Kevin: Babysitters, underpaid psychotherapists.
Kevin: Babysitters, underpaid psychotherapists.
Derek: Yeah, because it’s more than babysitting, it’s actually like some of these folks need help. No, and that’s incredibly difficult when you come across it because there’s only so much help you can give them in a community setting that’s really not about them.
Derek: Yeah, because it's more than babysitting, it's actually like some of these folks need help. No, and that's incredibly difficult when you come across it because there's only so much help you can give them in a community setting that's really not about them.
Patrick: It’s not just difficult, it’s unfair. I mean for anyone in our spot to be expected to manage that sort of situation, a community manager, a community administrator, or whatever, is not— that’s not short for psychiatrist or doctor or even full-time babysitter. You’re there to manage the community and keep it going on track, not to necessarily deal with the problems of one individual.
Patrick: It's not just difficult, it's unfair. I mean for anyone in our spot to be expected to manage that sort of situation, a community manager, a community administrator, or whatever, is not— that's not short for psychiatrist or doctor or even full-time babysitter. You're there to manage the community and keep it going on track, not to necessarily deal with the problems of one individual.
Derek: Yeah, and yet one individual, as we all know, can throw a community system into chaos.
Derek: Yeah, and yet one individual, as we all know, can throw a community system into chaos.
Patrick: Boom.
Patrick: Boom.
Derek: It really, like— One effective troll can ruin a community. And when there’s money on the line, when it’s a business-related community, then you really have to look out for that dangerous one percent.
Derek: It really, like— One effective troll can ruin a community. And when there's money on the line, when it's a business-related community, then you really have to look out for that dangerous one percent.
Kevin: And that’s all we have time for today. I know—we were just getting started! Well, the good news is that’s just the first half of the conversation that we had with Derek, and the second half is coming up in Podcast #54 in two weeks’ time. We’ll get Derek’s advice on how to deal with that dangerous one percent; we get Derek’s take on the communities surrounding social networking sites like Facebook and Twitter—are these real communities?—and I ask Derek what kind of sites shouldn’t have communities, whether he’s ever given a site owner the advice “don’t work on your community”. All that and a lot more in two weeks’ time, but first next week we have our regular news and commentary show with the whole gang.
Kevin: And that's all we have time for today. I know—we were just getting started! Well, the good news is that's just the first half of the conversation that we had with Derek, and the second half is coming up in Podcast #54 in two weeks' time. We'll get Derek's advice on how to deal with that dangerous one percent; we get Derek's take on the communities surrounding social networking sites like Facebook and Twitter—are these real communities?—and I ask Derek what kind of sites shouldn't have communities, whether he's ever given a site owner the advice “don't work on your community”. All that and a lot more in two weeks' time, but first next week we have our regular news and commentary show with the whole gang.
And thanks for listening to the SitePoint Podcast. If you have any thoughts or questions about today’s interview, please do get in touch.
感谢您收听SitePoint播客。 如果您对今天的采访有任何想法或疑问，请保持联系。
You can find SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom, and you can find me on Twitter @sentience.
你可以在Twitter上找到SitePoint @sitepointdotcom ，你可以找到我的Twitter @sentience 。
Visit sitepoint.com/podcast to leave a comment on this show and to subscribe to get every show automatically. We’ll be back next week with another news and commentary show with our usual panel of experts.
访问sitepoint.com/podcast对该节目发表评论并订阅以自动获得每一个节目。 下周我们将与我们通常的专家小组一起再次发布新闻和评论节目。
This episode of the SitePoint Podcast was produced by Karn Broad and I’m Kevin Yank. Bye for now!
This episode of the SitePoint Podcast was produced by Karn Broad and I'm Kevin Yank. 暂时再见！
Theme music by Mike Mella.
Mike Mella的主题音乐。
Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.
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翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-52-building-communities-derek-powazek-part-1/
