Episode 36 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy), Brad Williams (@williamsba) and Kevin Yank (@sentience).
SitePoint Podcast的 第36集现已发布！ 本周的主持人是Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy )，Brad Williams( @williamsba )和Kevin Yank( @sentience )。
You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:
您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：
SitePoint Podcast #36: Don’t Feed the Trolls (MP3, 36.7MB)
SitePoint Podcast＃36：不要喂巨魔 (MP3，36.7MB)
Here are the topics covered in this episode:
以下是本集中介绍的主题：
The SitePoint Podcast’s One Year Anniversary!
SitePoint播客成立一百周年！
SitePoint Podcast #1: The Economy (SitePoint)
SitePoint播客＃1：经济 (SitePoint)
Farewell Dan Schulz
告别Dan Schulz
Dan Schulz RIP – We Will Miss You (SitePoint)
Dan Schulz RIP –我们会想念您的 (SitePoint)
Five Years of Firefox
Firefox五年
Happy 5th Birthday Firefox! (SitePoint)
Firefox 5生日快乐！ (SitePoint)
Five Years of Firefox (Spread Firefox)
五年的Firefox (传播Firefox)
The First-to-Market Myth (37signals)
第一个进入市场的神话 (37signals)
SitePoint Podcast #18: Internet Explorer 8 … Percent? (SitePoint)
SitePoint Podcast＃18：Internet Explorer 8…百分比？ (SitePoint)
What is a Browser? Google Explains (SitePoint)
什么是浏览器？ Google说明 (SitePoint)
Google Closure Tools
Google关闭工具
Google Releases its JavaScript Closure Tools (SitePoint)
Google发布了JavaScript关闭工具 (SitePoint)
Introducing Closure Tools (Google)
介绍封闭工具 (Google)
Your JavaScript Library (Dmitry Baranovskiy)
您JavaScript库 (Dmitry Baranovskiy)
Google Closure: How Not to Write JavaScript (SitePoint)
Google关闭：如何不编写JavaScript (SitePoint)
Dealing with Trolls
处理巨魔
How to Deal with Trolls on Your Blog (SitePoint)
如何处理博客上的巨魔 (SitePoint)
Patrick’s comment on “You decide: how do you deal with that vicious commenter on your site?” (The Guardian)
帕特里克(Patrick)对“您决定：如何处理您网站上的那个恶意评论者的评论？” (守护者)
Wisdom of Community: Four Kinds of Crazy (Derek Powazek)
社区的智慧：四种疯狂 (Derek Powazek)
WebKit Enhances Safari’s Developer Tools
WebKit增强了Safari的开发人员工具
Web Inspector Updates (Surfin’ Safari)
Web检查器更新 (Surfin'Safari)
Installing PHP on Windows with Web PI
使用Web PI在Windows上安装PHP
Installing PHP on Windows Just Got Easier (SitePoint)
在Windows上安装PHP更容易 (SitePoint)
Web Platform Installer (Microsoft)
Web平台安装程序 (Microsoft)
Host Spotlights:
主持人聚光灯：
Brad: WordCamp New York
布拉德： 纽约WordCamp
Patrick: CollegeHumor Live: NYC – Kumail Nanjiani
帕特里克： CollegeHumor现场：纽约– Kumail Nanjiani
Kevin: Video: CSS Frameworks – Make the Right Choice
凯文： 视频：CSS框架–做出正确的选择
Kevin: November 13th, 2009. Firefox turns five, Google releases some questionable JavaScript code, and Microsoft courts open-source developers. This is the SitePoint Podcast #36: Don’t Feed the Trolls.
凯文(Kevin)： 2009年11月13日。火狐浏览器五岁，谷歌发布了一些可疑JavaScript代码，并且微软向开源开发人员致敬。 这是SitePoint播客＃36：不要喂巨魔。
Kevin: And it’s the SitePoint podcast again. Welcome back. Guys, can you believe it has been a year since we’ve started doing this?
凯文：这又是SitePoint播客。 欢迎回来。 伙计们，您能相信我们已经开始一年了吗？
Brad: Time flies and we’re having fun.
布拉德：时光飞逝，我们很开心。
Kevin: Yeah.
凯文：是的。
Patrick: Kind of.
帕特里克：有点。
Kevin: Thirty-six is a weird number to celebrate our one year anniversary on but we only started going weekly about halfway through the past year…
凯文：三十六岁是一个不可思议的数字，以庆祝我们成立一周年，但在过去一年的中途，我们才开始每周一次…
Patrick: Right.
帕特里克：对。
Kevin: …but yeah, just a year ago we sat down to record the first episode.
凯文： …但是，是的，一年前，我们坐下来录制了第一集。
Patrick: Thirty-six is a big number, still though.
帕特里克：尽管如此，三十六是个很大的数字。
Kevin: Listener, I am going to suggest that you go back and listen to that very first episode now and tell us how much we’ve improved.
凯文：听众，我建议您回去听一下第一集，然后告诉我们我们有哪些改进。
Brad: I hope we have.
布拉德：希望我们有。
Kevin: Hopefully we’ve improved, yeah.
凯文：希望我们有所改善，是的。
Patrick: You can only get to a certain level and then you stop improving, right?
帕特里克：您只能达到一定的水平，然后停止改进，对吗？
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, it seems fair to say we’ve plateaued by this point. I hate to start off on a sad note but I want to pay tribute and in fact dedicate this episode to a long time member of the SitePoint Forums community, Dan Schulz who sadly passed away in the past week. He joined the SitePoint community in 2006 and in that short time, so just over three years, he posted 15,648 times—and you can think of it, he was just some kind of forum addict and just posted a lot, but he was one of, if not, the most valuable member of the SitePoint community. He was Member of the Year in 2007, he became an advisor within the design team, I think it’s fair to say anyone who spent any time in the SitePoint Forums would have communicated with Dan on some level, and it wasn’t just the SitePoint Forums that he was active in. He was active on other web developer and design forums and also a big member of the WordPress community, right, Brad?
凯文：是的，可以肯定地说，我们在这一点上处于稳定状态。 我不愿以悲伤的心情开始，但我想表示敬意，实际上是将这一集献给了SitePoint论坛社区的长期成员Dan Schulz，他在上周不幸去世。 他于2006年加入SitePoint社区，在那短短的三年时间内，他发布了15648次-您可以想到，他只是某种论坛上瘾者，发布了很多东西，但他是其中之一(如果不是)，则是SitePoint社区中最有价值的成员。 他是2007年的年度会员，他成为设计团队的顾问。我认为可以说在SitePoint论坛上花费任何时间的人都可以与Dan进行某种程度的交流，而不仅仅是SitePoint他活跃的论坛。他活跃于其他Web开发人员和设计论坛，也是WordPress社区的重要成员，对吗，布拉德？
Brad: Yeah. I actually met Dan earlier in the year at WordCamp Chicago. It was the first time meeting him in person. We actually sat together and talked quite a bit throughout the day. He was just very knowledgeable guy and extremely helpful and just really enjoyed helping other people along, not just in web development, but in WordPress and other areas and just overall. He really liked to kind of share his knowledge and he had a lot of it. And I think you’re right, just about anyone who’s been on SitePoint the last few years at some point or another probably come across come across a post of Dan’s that have helped them or he’s helped them directly. So it’s definitely a huge loss for the community and it was kind of a shock to all of us, so we’re definitely keeping his family and friends in our thoughts.
布拉德：是的 实际上，我今年早些时候在芝加哥WordCamp遇到了Dan。 这是第一次亲自见面。 我们实际上坐在一起，整天都聊了很多。 他是一个非常有学识的人，并且非常乐于助人，而且非常乐于帮助其他人，不仅在Web开发方面，而且还在WordPress和其他领域以及整个领域。 他真的很喜欢分享自己的知识，并且他学到了很多。 我认为您是对的，几乎在过去几年中一直在SitePoint上工作过的任何人，或碰巧遇到的任何人都遇到了Dan的职位，该职位对他们有所帮助，或者他直接帮助了他们。 因此，这对于社区绝对是巨大的损失，这对我们所有人来说都是一种震惊，因此，我们绝对会保留他的家人和朋友的思想。
Kevin: I understand a lot of listeners to this podcast may not be active members of the SitePoint Forums and therefore this may not mean a whole lot to you, but yeah, in the SitePoint forums there’s a thread of people sending their condolences and sharing their thoughts about Dan. There’s 117 posts on that thread already and counting, so that’s just some measure of how much his contribution to the community was valued and I know everyone of us here at SitePoint headquarters will miss him a lot.
凯文：我了解这个Podcast的很多听众可能不是SitePoint论坛的活跃成员，因此这对您可能并不意味着很多，但是，是的，在SitePoint论坛中，有一线人表示哀悼并分享他们的观点。关于丹的想法。 该线程上已经有117个帖子并且还在增加，这只是衡量他对社区贡献的价值的一个衡量标准，我知道SitePoint总部的每个人都会非常想念他。
So on that sad note, let’s move on to something a little more upbeat and that’s the 5th anniversary of Firefox. Firefox is celebrating its 5th birthday. I almost said selling there. Brad?
因此，令人难过的是，让我们继续乐观一点，这是Firefox成立5周年。 Firefox正在庆祝其5岁生日。 我差点说在那儿卖。 布拉德？
Brad: Yeah, Firefox 1.0 is actually released November 9th, 2004, so just a few days ago, and it has marked its 5th birthday. And I actually went back and looked to some stats—because I wasn’t on the Firefox train when version 1.0 came out. I think I stumbled across it around version 2. So I was curious to see how the browsers stats compared at the time it was released. So in 2004, I found browser usage stats for the 4th quarter, and IE actually owned 90.98% of the market at the time when Firefox 1.0 was released, which is pretty astonishing when you think about it that they came in to a market knowing that their major competitor is Microsoft and they own 90% of the market and they still decided to do it and look how successful it’s been five years later. So it’s truly a great story and really amazing.
布拉德：是的，Firefox 1.0实际上是2004年11月9日发布的，所以就在几天前，它已经迎来了它的5岁生日。 实际上，我回过头来查看了一些统计信息，因为1.0版本发布时我不在Firefox火车上。 我想我偶然发现了版本2。因此，我很想知道浏览器发布时的统计数据如何。 因此，在2004年，我发现了第4季度的浏览器使用情况统计信息，当Firefox 1.0发布时，IE实际上占有了90.98％的市场份额。当您考虑到它们进入市场时，这真是令人惊讶。他们的主要竞争对手是微软，他们拥有90％的市场，他们仍然决定这样做，并希望五年后它能取得多大的成功。 因此，这确实是一个伟大的故事，而且确实令人惊讶。
Kevin: It’s pretty daunting. I mean, at the time, I remember we discussed the fact that Firefox, upon its release, it was actually a pretty, stable mature browser. I’d been using it for a while under its earlier names, Phoenix and Firebird, which is the names that it had during its beta phase and eventually, they had to change the name for legal reasons. I had been using it for a while by the time Firefox 1.0 came out and I remember discussing that this deserves to be a browser on regular users’ desktops. But at that time we were resigned to the fact that Internet Explorer would always be the browser of the masses. I wasn’t contributing to the Firefox team and maybe those people who were had a grander vision but for myself, I don’t think I ever envisioned a world where Firefox would be on a regular user’s computer. Let alone over 30% of the market now I think it is. It’s amazing.
凯文：这真是令人生畏。 我的意思是，当时，我记得我们曾讨论过以下事实：Firefox发行后实际上是一个漂亮，稳定的成熟浏览器。 我使用它的早期名称Phoenix和Firebird已有一段时间，这是它在Beta阶段的名称，最终，由于法律原因，他们不得不更改名称。 到Firefox 1.0发行时，我已经使用了一段时间，我记得曾经讨论过，它应该成为普通用户桌面上的浏览器。 但是当时我们对Internet Explorer永远是大众的浏览器感到失望。 我没有为Firefox团队做出任何贡献，也没有为那些有远见卓识的人做出贡献，但对我自己而言，我认为我从来没有想到过将Firefox变成普通用户计算机的世界。 我认为现在更不用说超过30％的市场了。 太奇妙了。
Brad: Even when you talk to people that aren’t developers or designers—most people still heard of Firefox; even if they don’t use it, they understand that it’s another browser and it’s possibly an alternative to Internet Explorer. So it’s really gotten out there spread virally and through their marketing campaigns and things like that, but you’re right, it’s amazing how much it’s grown just in a few short years.
布拉德：即使您与非开发人员或设计师的人交谈，大多数人仍然听说过Firefox。 即使他们不使用它，他们也知道它是另一个浏览器，并且可能是Internet Explorer的替代品。 因此，它确实是通过他们的营销活动以及诸如此类的方式在市场上传播得很厉害的，但是您是对的，令人惊讶的是，在短短的几年中，它的数量增长了多少。
Kevin: The Spread Firefox site—this is this grassroots evangelism group who tries to spread the word about Firefox—and I think we can thank them at least in part for the popularity of this browser today. They’ve put a special page called ‘Five Years of Firefox’ where they have quite an inspiring video about Firefox, the vision behind it, and where they hope it will go. I’m just going to play that now.
凯文(Kevin)： Spread Firefox网站-这是一个试图传播有关Firefox的基层宣教团体-我想我们至少可以部分感谢他们今天浏览器的流行。 他们放置了一个名为“ Firefox五年”的特殊页面，其中有关于Firefox的鼓舞人心的视频，其背后的愿景以及他们希望它将放到哪里。 我现在就去玩。
“By 2004, the internet had become a part of everyday life. It was a place for connecting, learning, sharing, and collaborating. But something wasn’t right. Web users wanted to explore without being spied on, preyed on, or ripped off, but viruses, spyware, pop-ups and adware were everywhere. The only thing personalized about the experience was the information being gathered about users without their knowledge. It was time to take back the Web so it can serve its original purpose—enriching the lives of individuals. From this simple, powerful desire came Firefox, specifically built to make the web better more of an open system where the design of the software could be shared, customized, and improved upon by anyone, anywhere, anytime. As word and code spread, Firefox inspired a community that sees the web as a living thing that must be nurtured, grow, and thrive. People worldwide are embracing this ecology of ideas and supporting a system that’s all about their needs and interests, and in keeping the internet a vibrant, exciting place. Designed by everyone, it’s for everyone. Over 1 billion downloads later; it shows no signs of slowing down. With Firefox, life online can reflect who users really are—from how they see it, connect with it, share it, to how they grow with it. Firefox is here to help them find their own way, moving at the speed of their imagination. We’ve come so far in just five years. Imagine what we can do together in the next five. Let’s keep the internet healthy, open and the creative fires burning bright. Light the world, with Firefox.”
“到2004年，互联网已成为日常生活的一部分。 它是联系，学习，共享和协作的地方。 但是有些事情是不对的。 网络用户想探索而不会被监视，掠夺或窃取，但是病毒，间谍软件，弹出窗口和广告软件无处不在。 唯一个性化的体验是在用户不知情的情况下收集的有关用户的信息。 现在是时候收回Web，使其可以实现其原始目的了-丰富个人生活。 Firefox产生了这种简单而强大的需求，Firefox旨在使Web更好地成为一个开放系统，该系统的软件设计可以被任何人随时随地共享，定制和改进。 随着文字和代码的传播，Firefox启发了一个社区，该社区将网络视为必须培育，成长和繁荣的生物。 世界各地的人们都在拥护这种思想生态，并为他们的需求和利益提供支持的系统，并使互联网成为一个充满活力，令人兴奋的地方。 由所有人设计，适合所有人。 超过10亿次下载； 它没有显示出减速的迹象。 借助Firefox，在线生活可以反映用户的真实身份-从他们的观看方式，与之联系，共享，到他们的成长方式。 Firefox可以帮助他们找到自己的方式，以他们的想象力前进。 到目前为止，我们已经过去了五年。 想象一下在接下来的五个工作中我们可以一起做什么。 让我们保持互联网的健康，开放和富有创意的火焰。 使用Firefox点亮世界。”
Well, you guys, I’m a little choked up after that, I have to say.
好吧，我不得不说，那之后我有点cho。
Patrick: You would be. We’ve been using Firefox before anybody knew about it, ever!
帕特里克：会的。 我们一直在使用Firefox，直到有人知道它为止！
Kevin: [laughter]
凯文： [笑声]
Patrick: Since when it was Safari or Firebird or Mustang or something… no, I’m just kidding. But they’ve come a long way and it’s interesting to chart the numbers and they definitely made headway into the market and you talk about daunting numbers. I think it’s the same thing with online communities in some way because there are these communities that are sort of dominant in their fields and there’s always people who say, “Well, I have this idea too. I’d like to do it, but they’re just so big, I can’t do anything.” The thing is the biggest thing in life is starting. There’s always room for someone else to come in and do something better or differently or better for someone, and I think Firefox is maybe a good example of that as well.
帕特里克(Patrick)：自从它是Safari或Firebird或Mustang之类的东西以来……不，我只是在开玩笑。 但是他们走了很长一段路，绘制图表很有趣，而且它们确实进入了市场，您谈论的数字令人生畏。 我认为在线社区在某种程度上是同一回事，因为有些社区在其领域中占主导地位，并且总是有人说：“嗯，我也有这个想法。 我想这样做，但是它们太大了，我什么也做不了。” 事情是生活中最大的事情正在开始。 别人总是有进入的空间，可以做得更好，有所不同或对某人做得更好，我认为Firefox也可能是一个很好的例子。
Kevin: Oh, absolutely. I think 37signals, I think, had a blog post just in his past week. I’ll look it up and try to find it for the show notes but it was a blog post about how you don’t have to be the— “The First-to-Market Myth” I think they call it. That you think you have to be the first one in the space to be the successful one. It’s not true. In fact, if you come second, you often have the benefit of your competitor’s hindsight.
凯文：哦，绝对。 我想37signals就在他过去的一周里有一篇博客文章。 我将查找并尝试将其用作显示注释，但这是一篇博客文章，内容涉及您不必成为“第一个进入市场的神话”，我认为他们称之为。 您认为自己必须成为该领域的第一个成功者。 这不是真的。 实际上，如果您排名第二，那么您经常会从竞争对手的事后观察中受益。
Brad: Yep, definitely.
布拉德：是的 ，当然。
Kevin: So, yeah.
凯文：是的，是的。
Brad: And if that was case, there’d be no Google. The Yahoo! had the search market dominated and nobody really want to touch them at the time and Google popped up—and look at them now.
布拉德：如果是这样的话，那就没有谷歌了。 雅虎！ 当时，搜索市场占据了主导地位，当时没有人真正想触摸它们，Google突然出现了-现在看看它们。
Kevin: I’m just looking for that blog post that we covered on the SitePoint Podcast before about where Google did the man-on-the-street interviews in Times Square and asked people if they knew what a browser was, and I think the one person who said they were using Firefox said they were using it because their friend came over and installed it and said, “Now, you’re using Firefox.”
凯文：我只是在寻找我们之前在SitePoint播客上报道的博客文章，内容是关于Google在时代广场进行的街头采访的地点，并问人们是否知道浏览器是什么，我认为一位说使用Firefox的人说，之所以使用它，是因为他们的朋友过来安装了它并说：“现在，您正在使用Firefox。”
Patrick: So it’s dictatorship, in other words.
帕特里克：也就是说，这就是专政。
Kevin: Yeah. It looks like Google followed that video up with another video. It’s kind of a cartoon called ‘What is a Browser?’ So they’re doing their part to try and explain. They said that when they did the man-on-the-street interviews, only 8% of people knew what a browser was at that time. So they’ve got a nice little video called ‘What is a Browser?’ that’s worth checking out and I’ll mention that as well. But I guess it goes to show that you don’t need to know what a browser is in order to switch to Firefox, because if Firefox is up to 30% but only 8% know what a browser is, why are all those people switching to Firefox?
凯文：是的。 看起来Google跟着那个视频跟着另一个视频 。 有点像“什么是浏览器？” 因此，他们正在尽力尝试并进行解释。 他们说，当他们进行街头采访时，只有8％的人知道当时的浏览器是什么。 因此，他们有一个不错的小视频，叫做“什么是浏览器？” 值得一试，我也会提到这一点。 但是我想这表明您不需要知道浏览器是什么就可以切换到Firefox，因为如果Firefox达到30％，但只有8％知道浏览器是什么，那么为什么所有这些人都切换了到Firefox？
Patrick: Firefox is a team of elite hackers that hack into your house at night and they install the browser on your computer and switch it around and the thing is you don’t know what a browser is so you never know the difference. So that’s how it happened.
帕特里克(Patrick)： Firefox是一个由精英黑客组成的团队，他们在晚上入侵您的房屋，然后将浏览器安装到您的计算机上并进行切换，结果是您不知道浏览器是什么，所以您永远都不知道它们之间的区别。 就是这样。
Kevin: Right and they assign the blue E icon to the Firefox program just to avoid confusion.
凯文：对，他们将蓝色E图标分配给Firefox程序，以避免混淆。
So Firefox turns 5. Congratulations Mozilla team and for the volunteers and the Mozilla staff behind Spread Firefox who put that video together. Yeah, great work guys and gals.
因此Firefox变成了5岁。祝贺Mozilla团队以及Spread Firefox背后的志愿者和Mozilla员工，他们将视频整合在一起。 是的，出色的工作人员和朋友。
Our next story is Google open sourcing its set of JavaScript tools under the name Closure. The Google Code Blog has a post in the past week called ‘Introducing Closure Tools’ and it talks about the fact that they’ve written so much JavaScript code for products like Gmail, Google Docs and Google Maps that they’ve decided to open source a bunch of this stuff and make it available for the rest of the web developers out there, you and I, to use the same JavaScript tools that they do. They’ve released the Closure Compiler, which will shrink down your JavaScript code so that it is as small as possible and will load quicker; they released the Closure Library, which is a set of reusable software components that use Google’s code instead of having to reinvent the wheel yourself for common tasks; and Closure Templates, which I still can’t quite figure out what it is. Just as when you’re building a reusable page template in PHP, the page that will display all the articles on your site, well, Closure Templates is a way of doing that with JavaScript. It’s a templating language that is meant to be parsed by JavaScript on the client side or Java on the server side. So using the same template language, you can write templates that will be built into web pages on both sides of that client-server divide. I think you’d have to be doing something pretty special to find a use for Closure Templates, but if you’re building the next Gmail competitor, there you have it—Google has saved you a bit of work.
我们的下一个故事是Google以Closure的名义开源其JavaScript工具集。 Google Code博客在过去一周中发表了一篇名为“介绍封闭工具”的文章 ，其中谈到了他们为Gmail，Google Docs和Google Maps等产品编写了如此多JavaScript代码，以致于他们决定开源。一堆这样的东西，并使其可供其他Web开发人员(您和我)使用与他们相同JavaScript工具。 他们发布了Closure Compiler，它将缩小您JavaScript代码，使其尽可能的小，并且加载更快。 他们发布了Closure库，该库是一组可重复使用的软件组件，这些组件使用Google的代码，而不必自己为常规任务重新发明轮子。 和关闭模板，我仍然不太清楚它是什么。 就像在PHP中构建可重用的页面模板一样，该页面将显示您网站上的所有文章，同样，关闭模板是使用JavaScript的一种方式。 这是一种模板语言，旨在通过客户端JavaScript或服务器端的Java进行解析。 因此，使用相同的模板语言，您可以在客户端-服务器分区的两边编写将内置到网页中的模板。 我认为您必须做一些非常特别的事情才能找到Closure Templates的用途，但是如果您要建立下一个Gmail竞争对手，那么就可以了-Google节省了您一些工作。
Guys, have you taken a look at this at all? Brad, I know you’re the developer mind here besides myself.
伙计们，您完全看过这个吗？ 布拉德，我知道您除了我自己还在这里。
Brad: No, I skimmed through it. I don’t do a lot of advanced JavaScripts. My JavaScript, typically, if I have a JavaScript what I do is put drop a cursor into a form field or something like that when you load a page, very basic stuff. I did go through it. Hats off to Google for releasing some open source, I love open source, so the more open source the better in my opinion. And I’m sure some people are going to get some good use out of it but since I’m not really an advanced JavaScript developer, it’s hard for me to pinpoint how great it’s going to actually be.
布拉德：不，我略读了一下。 我没有很多高级JavaScript。 我JavaScript通常，如果我有JavaScript，我要做的就是在加载页面时将光标放到form字段或类似的字段中，这是非常基本的东西。 我确实经历了。 我不愿向Google发布一些开放源代码，我喜欢开放源代码，因此我认为开放源代码越多越好。 而且我敢肯定，有些人会从中受益匪浅，但是由于我并不是真正JavaScript高级开发人员，因此很难确定它的实际用途。
Kevin: Well, I was just in the past week at the Edge of the Web Conference in Perth where Dmitry Baranovskiy was speaking. And Dmitry, for those who don’t know the name, is the guy behind the Raphaël JavaScript Library for doing graphics, for doing SVG-style vector graphics across all browsers, and it’s a really nice library. And needless to say, Dmitry has spent a lot of time writing JavaScript code making sure that it works well across browsers and, importantly, optimizing it for performance and small size of code because the most important thing his library does is bring vector graphics to Internet Explorer, which doesn’t support these open standards for vector graphics. And Internet Explorer is well-known as being one of the slowest JavaScript or the slowest JavaScript engine out there right now. So the most important thing this library does is try to get decent performance out of the Internet Explorer engine, and he gave a talk at the conference about writing your own JavaScript library and a whole bunch of do’s and don’ts if you’re going to release your own JavaScript library. And it was funny because the very next day, Google released its Closure tools and I caught up with Dmitry that day and he was ranting about the horrible JavaScript code that was in this library. He said it was like they were taking notes in his ‘10 things not to do when you release a JavaScript library’ session and did them all. He’s actually sent me a list of code snippets and snarky comments pulled from the Closure Library and I’m going to be spending this afternoon turning that into a blog post for SitePoint. So it should be up by the time you’re hearing this podcast and a link to it in the show notes.
凯文：嗯，我刚刚过去一周在珀斯( Dmitry Baranovskiy )在珀斯举行的网络会议边缘 。 对于那些不知道名字的人来说，Dmitry是RaphaëlJavaScript库背后的家伙，该库用于制作图形，在所有浏览器中制作SVG风格的矢量图形，这是一个非常不错的库。 不用说，Dmitry已经花费了很多时间来编写JavaScript代码，以确保它在浏览器中可以很好地工作，并且重要的是，针对性能和较小的代码量对其进行优化，因为他的库所做的最重要的事情就是将矢量图形引入了Internet资源管理器，它不支持这些开放的矢量图形标准。 和Internet Explorer是众所周知的最慢JavaScript的一个或现在最慢的 JavaScript引擎在那里。 因此，此库最重要的事情是设法从Internet Explorer引擎中获得不错的性能，他在会议上发表了有关编写自己JavaScript库以及如果要使用时应做和不应该做的一大部分的演讲。发布自己JavaScript库。 有趣的是，第二天Google发布了Closure工具，那天我赶上了Dmitry，他对这个库中可怕JavaScript代码感到愤慨。 他说，这就像他们在他的“发布JavaScript库时不要做的10件事”中记笔记并全部完成了。 实际上，他已经给我发送了一个从Closure库中提取的代码片段和肮脏评论的列表，我将在今天下午花费大量时间将其变成SitePoint的博客文章 。 因此，在您收听此播客及其显示说明中的链接时，它应该已启动。
But really, the overall trend that he spots here is that this is like a JavaScript library that has clearly been written by Java developers, people who don’t know the JavaScript language very well, and the code is incredibly inefficient in places and does things that you do have to do in Java to get something to work right–but in JavaScript, all it does is slow the code down for no useful purpose. And he’s pointed out things like memory leaks and places where they’ve converted things from one type to another for no reason and it’s just going to slow the code down. In short, Dmitry is not impressed by the code here and he’s actually worried that just the Google name is so— We assume that Google knows what it’s doing especially when it comes to rich internet applications and performance, things like that. People are going to assume that this is a best-of-breed library and they’re going to switch from more established JavaScript libraries like jQuery, which Dmitry really likes a lot. He’s a big fan of that library and holds it up as a shining example of JavaScript written the JavaScript way for maximum performance and efficiency. And he would hate to think that someone would switch from jQuery to Google just because of the Google name.
但是，实际上，他在这里看到的总体趋势是，这就像一个JavaScript库，显然是Java开发人员编写的，他们不太了解JavaScript语言，并且代码在执行工作时效率很低您必须在Java中完成某些工作才能正常工作-但是在JavaScript中，它所做的一切只是降低了代码的使用速度，无济于事。 他指出了诸如内存泄漏之类的事情，以及无缘无故将它们从一种类型转换为另一种类型的地方，这只会减慢代码的速度。 简而言之，这里的代码对Dmitry并没有留下深刻的印象，他实际上担心的只是Google的名字。我们假设Google知道自己在做什么，尤其是在涉及丰富的Internet应用程序和性能方面。 人们会认为这是同类最佳的库，并且他们将从更成熟JavaScript库(如jQuery，Dmitry非常喜欢的jQuery)切换。 他是该库的忠实拥护者，并将其作为JavaScript的一个出色示例，以JavaScript方式编写，以最大限度地提高性能和效率。 而且他不愿意想到有人会仅仅因为Google名称而从jQuery切换到Google。
Does Google have a responsibility that other companies don’t when releasing code to make sure that it really is the best that the Web has to offer?
Google在发布代码时是否有其他公司不承担的责任，以确保它确实是Web必须提供的最好的服务？
Brad: I guess there are two sides of this. Yes, they do have responsibility because they have a huge name attached to it, but anything it releases is never going to be perfect. Nothing is ever perfect, and I think the fact that they are releasing it as open source and allowing the world to kind of take a look at this and see how it works and what they can do to improve upon it will help them eventually get that much better over time. It doesn’t look like they’re allowing public collaboration, though, on the open source tools. It’s just out there to download and run yourself but you can’t actually contribute to it as far as I can tell. So I guess that’s the other big question. Will they allow public contributions or will they just take like these points that he’s pointing out and may or may not use them? I guess it depends on that.
布拉德：我想这有两个方面。 是的，他们确实有责任，因为他们有一个巨大的名字，但是它发布的任何东西都绝不是完美的。 没有什么是完美的，而且我认为他们将其作为开源发布，并允许世界对其进行观察，了解其工作原理以及可以做些什么来改进这一事实，将最终帮助他们实现这一目标。随着时间的推移会好得多。 但是，似乎他们不允许在开源工具上进行公共协作。 它只是可以下载并自己运行，但据我所知，您实际上不能为它做任何贡献。 所以我想这是另一个大问题。 他们会允许公众捐款吗？还是会像他指出的那样接受这些意见，或者可能会或可能不会使用它们？ 我想这取决于那。
Kevin: And even if they do release it I don’t know if people like Dmitry would go out of their way to fix the problems. I mean, he would argue that the world has plenty of JavaScript libraries out there and the last thing that talented JavaScript developer should be doing is fixing Google’s code for them because they decided to write their own rather than adopt some of the really great solutions that are already out there. I don’t know, it’s a hard one to answer. Like it’s hard to begrudge Google releasing free code out there into the wild, but yeah, if they’re going to make the Web worse as a result, I’m not so sure it’s a good thing.
凯文：即使他们发布了它，我也不知道像德米特里(Dmitry)这样的人是否会全力以赴解决问题。 我的意思是，他会争辩说世界上有很多JavaScript库，而有才华JavaScript开发人员应该做的最后一件事就是为他们修复Google的代码，因为他们决定编写自己的代码，而不是采用某些非常好的解决方案，已经在那里了。 我不知道，这很难回答。 就像很难让人讨厌Google在那儿免费发布免费代码一样，但是是的，如果他们因此使网络变得更糟，我不确定那是一件好事。
We won’t solve that one on this podcast anyway, so let’s move on. The next one is a post on the SitePoint Blogs called ‘How to Deal with Trolls on your Blog?’ and Patrick, you know a thing or two about this.
无论如何，我们不会在此播客中解决该问题，所以让我们继续。 下一个是在SitePoint博客上的帖子，名为“如何处理博客上的巨魔？”。 和帕特里克(Patrick)，您对此了解一两件事。
Patrick: Yes. It’s time for me to speak. Hello, everyone. Yeah, the post is called ‘How to Deal with Trolls in your Blogs’ by Alyssa Gregory and she runs through, basically, how to deal with the trolls. So I guess we all know what trolls are. Basically, they’re on your site forums, blog, comments, whatever—trying to get a reaction, trying to anger people, trying to degrade the conversation. She hits on a few bullet points. First, don’t feed the trolls, which is pretty well known, not to give them attention; find out what they’re all about, which is maybe a little less uncommon, may or may not be a good idea to spend time thinking about why they’re a troll; and then finally, how to deal with them. There’s three ways that she talks about: kill them with kindness, block them, or report them. Reporting them basically would mean taking some sort of legal action, reporting them through their ISP, reporting them to authorities, and so on. And that’s kind of tied in to another article I saw recently on the Guardian web site, Guardian.co.uk by Charles Arthur, and he wrote—it was basically like a poll for the blog community they have over there, “You decide: How do you deal with the vicious commenter on your site,” and he gave an example of basically a troll and asked people how they should deal with them. And he got a bunch of comments and I was one of those comments but you know, I don’t know. Let’s give this over to someone else for a moment. How do you guys deal with trolls on your sites?
帕特里克：是的。 我该说话了。 大家好。 是的，该帖子被Alyssa Gregory称为“如何处理博客中的巨魔”，基本上，她讲解了如何处理巨魔。 所以我想我们都知道什么是巨魔。 基本上，它们会出现在您的站点的论坛，博客，评论中，无论是什么，都试图得到回应，激怒人们，降低对话质量。 她提出了一些要点。 首先，不要喂那些众所周知的巨魔，不要引起他们的注意。 找出它们的全部含义，这可能不太常见，花时间思考为什么它们是巨魔可能不是一个好主意； 最后，如何处理它们。 她谈论的方式有三种：善待他们，阻止他们或举报他们。 报告它们基本上意味着采取某种法律行动，通过其ISP报告它们，向主管当局报告等等。 这与我最近在查尔斯·亚瑟(Charles Arthur)在《卫报》网站Guardian.co.uk上看到的另一篇文章有关，他写道-基本上就像他们在那里的博客社区的民意调查一样， “您决定：您如何处理您网站上的恶意评论者，”他举例说明了一个巨魔，并问人们应该如何处理。 他收到了一堆评论，而我就是其中之一，但你知道，我不知道。 让我们暂时将其交给其他人。 你们如何处理您网站上的巨魔？
Brad: Well I think bbPress actually does it the best that I’ve ever seen and if you’re not familiar—bbPress is the open source message board software created by the some people who did WordPress. BbPress actually ships with a plug-in called the ‘Bozo’ plug-in and essentially what it does, if you get a troll on your web site or in your forum in this case—you can flag that person as ‘Bozo’. And all that does is whenever that person posts on your message board, they see their post just like it’s normal but nobody else on the entire site can see it. So they have no idea that they’re blocked, they’re just sitting there wasting their own time, replying to everybody, you know starting flame wars or trying to start flame wars or whatever it is they’re doing—but the whole time nobody else even knows that they’re doing anything. So really at the end of the day, you’re just wasting the troll’s time which I think is genius.
布拉德：嗯，我认为bbPress实际上是我见过的最好的工具，如果您不熟悉的话， bbPress是一些使用WordPress的人创建的开源留言板软件。 BbPress实际上附带了一个名为“ Bozo”插件的插件，并且从本质上讲，它的作用是，如果在这种情况下，您在网站或论坛上遇到了巨魔，则可以将该人标记为“ Bozo”。 而所有要做的就是，只要该人在您的留言板上发帖，他们就会像平常一样看到他们的帖子，但整个网站上没有其他人可以看到它。 因此，他们不知道自己被封锁了，只是坐在那里浪费自己的时间，回覆所有人，您知道开始了火焰大战或试图开始火焰大战，或者他们在做什么，但是始终没有人知道他们在做什么。 所以说到底，您只是在浪费巨魔的时间，我认为这是天才。
Kevin: That’s a great trick.
凯文：这是个绝妙的戏。
Patrick: Right. In vBulletin that’s called ‘Tachy Goes to Coventry’, I think. And it’s also maybe more widely known as ‘Global Ignore’ but it’s like I said, it’s also very effective.
帕特里克：对。 我认为在vBulletin中，它被称为“ Tachy去考文垂”。 它也可能被广泛称为“全球忽略”，但是就像我说的那样，它也非常有效。
Kevin: I was, again, at this conference in Perth— Wow! It was a great conference—I’m getting some mileage out of it on this show today. I got to see the closing keynote by Derek Powazek—who some people may know from the Fray indie magazine or possibly from JPG magazine. Anyway, he has a lot of experience building communities online and he gave a talk about the different kinds of crazy you’ll encounter when you build an online community. And the last one he touched on was trolls and he talked about this – thing called the Green Hair Theory which I wish I could remember the citation but apparently a psychology student of some kind conducted this experiment and was interviewed by a professional reporter and said to the reporter in the interview, “Wow, you’ve got green hair!” And the reporter said, “No, I don’t.” And he said, “Oh, that’s interesting, you’re a terrible reporter.” And the reporter went, “Oh! But I went to school here and I’ve worked in all these places,” and immediately went on the defensive. And the point here was that when it was something about like green hair that was clearly right or wrong and there was no sense of ego about whether it was right or wrong; you could just respond calmly. But as soon as you draw the person’s qualifications into question, you elicit an emotional response, they immediately go on a defensive and make the wrong move. And that’s really the reaction that trolls are counting on.
凯文：我再次参加了在珀斯举行的这次会议，哇！ 这是一次很棒的会议，我今天在这个节目中收获了很多。 我看到了德里克·波瓦泽克(Derek Powazek)的闭幕演讲，有些人可能从Fray独立杂志或JPG杂志中认识到。 无论如何，他有很多在线社区建设的经验，他还谈到了建立在线社区时会遇到的各种疯狂情况。 他最后触及的是巨魔，然后他谈到了这一点–我希望我能记得被引用的叫做“绿色头发理论”的东西，但显然是一位心理学专业的学生进行了此实验，并接受了专业记者的采访，并说：记者在采访中说：“哇，你的头发真绿！” 记者说：“不，我不。” 他说：“哦，这很有趣，你是一个可怕的记者。” 记者说：“哦！ 但是我在这里上学，并且在所有这些地方工作过，”并立即进行了防御。 这里的意思是，当像绿色的头发这样的东西显然是对还是错时，对它是对还是错没有任何自负的感觉。 您可以冷静地回应。 但是，一旦您对某人的资格提出疑问，就会引起情绪上的React，他们立即采取防御措施，并采取了错误的行动。 这确实是巨魔指望的React。
Derek said the biggest mistake people make when dealing with trolls is thinking that you can reason with them or that they actually disagree with you. Most of the time, they don’t. They just are looking for that response and that making them invisible to everyone but themselves trick is something he kind of mentioned sort of in passing that there are some big communities out there, the names of which we would recognize, that actively use this technique but they don’t want the public to know. And so he didn’t want to use their names. But I certainly had my own guesses about who they might be.
德里克(Derek)说，人们在与巨魔打交道时犯下的最大错误是认为您可以与他们推理或他们实际上不同意您的看法。 大多数时候，他们没有。 他们只是在寻找这种React，让每个人都看不见它们，但是他们自己的把戏是他提到的一种顺便说一句，即那里有一些大社区，我们会认识到这些社区的名称，他们积极地使用了这种技术，但是他们不希望公众知道。 因此，他不想使用他们的名字。 但是我当然对他们可能是谁有自己的猜测。
His last point was that you really need to not be afraid to call the authorities on these people, that we sort of have this sense as site owners that the Web is the Wild West and we have to deal with our own problems, but that there are actually are legal bodies out there, certainly in the United States, who’s job it is to deal with these kinds of—what are really internet crimes. There are laws against sabotage online of certain types and so if your site is being attacked by trolls, definitely don’t hesitate to pick up the phone because there are people out there whose job is to help you.
他的最后一点是，您真的不必害怕向这些人打电话给当局，作为站点所有者，我们有点像网络是狂野的西部，我们必须处理自己的问题，但是在那里实际上是在美国的法律机构，当然是在美国，这是应对这类犯罪的工作，这实际上是互联网犯罪。 有一些法律禁止某些类型的在线破坏活动，因此，如果您的网站受到巨魔的攻击，绝对不要犹豫，拿起电话，因为那里有人在为您服务。
He also mentioned the fact that you can actually… usually a troll attack will often be conducted by people creating new accounts and so often the way to shut down an attack of trolls is to temporarily switch off new signups to your community, or automatically make those people go into that ‘Global invisible’ box. So yeah, there’s a lot of ways to deal with this.
他还提到了一个事实，即您实际上可以…通常通过创建新帐户的人来进行巨魔攻击，而关闭巨魔攻击的方法通常是暂时关闭您社区的新注册，或者自动进行新的注册。人们进入“全球隐形”框。 是的，有很多方法可以解决这个问题。
Patrick: Yeah, it sounds like it was a great presentation. Another part of that presentation—because I read through the SlideShare link because you had mentioned it—and one of the things he said was that someone who doesn’t agree with you isn’t a troll necessarily, and I think that the kind of larger point there is to be careful about the classification of a troll. We have these tools like Global Ignore, I used a Troll Hack on my site— basically it’s simulated downtime. I use those on my communities where it’s like a site simulated downtime—the site acts like sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t—they’re never able to post but they get close, and that sort of thing. The thing with both of those tools is that they really should be reserved for obvious cases of trolls so I have someone who I banned then that—even if they’re a troll, I don’t bring that thing out on the first time. I don’t break that out whenever someone gets banned. I wait and if they have—if they return or if they come back, if it’s someone who is obviously causing trouble, I mean obviously some trolls might post like 15, 20 comments and say all these nasty things and it’s so obvious to you. Maybe they’re saying things that are so off the wall or racist or just highly inappropriate, pornography, whatever—that’s a different case. But I find that most people don’t fall into those categories. You have people who are just kind of nasty by nature, not to invoke the rap group Naughty by Nature.
帕特里克：是的，听起来像是一个很棒的演讲。 该演示文稿的另一部分(因为我已经读过SlideShare链接是因为您提到了它)，而他说的一件事是，不同意您的人不一定就是一个巨魔，我认为那种更大的一点是，对于巨魔的分类要格外小心。 我们拥有诸如Global Ignore之类的工具，我在网站上使用了Troll Hack-基本上是模拟停机时间。 我在社区中模拟那些站点，就像模拟站点停机一样—该站点的行为有时可以正常运行，有时却不能—它们永远无法发布，但它们却很亲密，诸如此类。 这两个工具的作用是，它们确实应该保留给明显的巨魔使用，因此我禁止了某个人，即使它们是巨魔，我也不会在第一时间将其删除。 每当有人被禁止时，我都不会公开。 我等一下，如果他们有-如果他们回来了，或者他们回来了，如果这显然是在造成麻烦的人，我的意思是显然有些巨魔可能发布了15、20条评论，并说了所有这些讨厌的话，对您来说是如此明显。 也许他们说的话太过冷落，种族歧视，或者说是非常不合适的色情内容，无论如何-情况不同。 但是我发现大多数人都不属于这些类别。 您有些人天生就是讨厌的人，而不是说唱歌手Naughty by Nature。
But yeah, I think that the key to it is to just have guidelines first and foremost that speak to what your community is about, which you allow, which you don’t allow, and then enforce those guidelines fairly and evenly. And if it continues, then you have to ban them or block them in some way and if they come back, then bring out those big guns and use them—and don’t give them more attention. I’ve had people who have come back to my sites for years, who have signed for dozen accounts or more, the same person coming back over and over again. The key is that every time they came back, they got blocked again. No one spoke to them, no one knew they existed, and eventually they gave up. So you just have to keep it going, keep it moving, and stay focused on your goals and don’t let them affect you.
但是，是的，我认为它的关键是首先要有一个准则，首先要说明您所在社区的含义，您允许的内容，您不允许的内容，然后公平，均匀地执行这些准则。 而且，如果这种情况持续下去，那么您就必须禁止或以某种方式阻止它们，如果它们又回来了，那就拿出那些大枪并使用它们-不要给他们更多的关注。 我有很多人已经回到我的网站多年了，他们已经签署了数十个或更多帐户，而同一个人又一次又一次地回来。 关键是每次他们回来时，他们都会再次被封锁。 没有人跟他们说话，没人知道他们的存在，最终他们放弃了。 因此，您只需要继续前进，保持前进，并专注于自己的目标，不要让它们影响您。
Kevin: The WebKit team have been hard at work again. Their developer tools—I think they’re widely recognized as the prettiest ones in browsers. So if you’ve used Safari for your development and you’ve ever opened the Web Inspector in Safari, I think you can agree. It’s got the glossiest user interface of any of these things in the browsers presently, but it’s always been a little less capable than things like Firebug. I’ve said on this podcast before that I use Firefox as my development browser, because it has things like Firebug in it, and I use Safari as my getting around the web day-to-day browser. But the WebKit team who work on WebKit Nightlies and you can download these effectively early versions of Safari, pre-release versions, and the latest one has some amazing enhancements to the developer tools. Did you take a look at this, Brad?
凯文： WebKit团队再次努力工作。 他们的开发人员工具-我认为它们是浏览器中最漂亮的工具。 因此，如果您使用Safari进行开发并且曾经在Safari中打开过Web Inspector，我认为您可以同意。 目前，这些功能在浏览器中是最光滑的用户界面，但它的功能总是比Firebug等功能差一点。 我之前在这个播客上说过，我使用Firefox作为开发浏览器，因为其中包含诸如Firebug之类的东西，并且我使用Safari作为日常浏览器。 但是在WebKit Nightlies上工作的WebKit团队可以下载这些有效的Safari早期版本，预发行版本，而最新版本则对开发人员工具进行了一些惊人的增强 。 布拉德，你看过这个吗？
Brad: Yeah, absolutely. It looks like they’re adding some really cool features and I went through the list. A couple that caught my eye—I think the resources timeline which essentially breaks down all the different elements of your web site and charts you on this nice little graph that you can see how many milliseconds each little item and image and piece of JavaScript it took to load—is real clever and I think that would extremely useful when you’re trying to speed up your web site.
布拉德：是的，绝对。 看起来他们正在添加一些非常酷的功能，我遍历了清单。 一对吸引了我的眼神-我认为资源时间表实质上分解了网站的所有不同元素，并在此精美的小图形上显示了您的图表，您可以看到每个小商品，图像和一段JavaScript花费了多少毫秒加载-确实很聪明，当您尝试加快网站访问速度时，我认为这将非常有用。
Kevin: It’s a lot of… Yeah, it’s some gorgeous eye candy too but some of the things that they’ve added that I have not seen anywhere else are things like the event listeners list. You can select an element in your document and it will show you all of the JavaScript event listeners that are attached to it. That’s something that I’ve never been ever been able to do in a point-and-click way in a browser before and it’s vitally important if you’re doing any kind of JavaScript interaction on your site. They’ve improved things like editing attributes and editing CSS. You can even create new selectors on the fly whereas previously you could just fiddle with the property values in your existing CSS rules. You can actually create entire new rules now. It’s really very nice. You can browse through the cookie storage of the browser and the local storage if you’re doing some advanced JavaScript stuff that stores data locally. It’s really incredible. I think at this rate, Safari is going to become the development browser of choice which will be quite a change. What does this mean for Firefox?
凯文：很多……是的，它也是一些漂亮的糖果，但是他们添加的一些东西我没有在其他地方看到过，例如事件监听器列表。 您可以在文档中选择一个元素，该元素将显示附加到该元素的所有JavaScript事件侦听器。 这是我以前从未能够在浏览器中以点击方式完成的，如果您要在网站上进行任何类型JavaScript交互，这一点至关重要。 他们改进了诸如编辑属性和编辑CSS之类的内容。 您甚至可以即时创建新的选择器，而以前您只能在现有CSS规则中摆弄属性值。 实际上，您现在可以创建整个新规则。 真的很好 如果您正在执行一些将JavaScript本地存储数据的高级JavaScript工作，则可以浏览浏览器的Cookie存储和本地存储。 真是不可思议。 我认为以这样的速度，Safari将成为首选的开发浏览器，这将是一个很大的变化。 这对Firefox意味着什么？
Brad: They’ll have to play catch up—it’s just the back and forth game.
布拉德：他们必须玩追赶-这只是来回游戏。
Kevin: Mm! Does anyone else get the sense; the Firebug has kind of been resting on its laurels?
凯文：嗯！ 还有其他人知道吗？ 萤火虫一直在桂冠上休息吗？
Brad: Yeah, they haven’t really changed… I mean there’s been some minor updates here and there but I haven’t noticed any major features added and I don’t know how long.
布拉德：是的，他们并没有真正改变……我的意思是，这里和那里都有一些小的更新，但是我没有注意到添加了任何主要功能，而且我不知道要花多长时间。
Kevin: Yeah, it seems like it’s… “And here’s the latest compatibility update”, is mainly what I’ve seen from Firebug. Firebug has kind of been— It was originally developed by one guy, Joe Hewitt, who has since moved on to other things and it is now, as far as I understand, maintained by largely a group of volunteers and perhaps one or two Mozilla staffers, but I’m not sure it’s a priority for anyone who’s working on it. And I also hear by the grapevine that it has some really ugly code in it that it basically forces Firefox to do some things that Firefox was not designed to do. And as a result the code is not especially pretty. We’ve got a PDF on SitePoint, we’ve developed a couple of our own Firebug add-ons and we published a little free e-book about how to write your own Firefox add-ons and it’s not a pretty process. We wrote the book because we were constantly hearing people saying, “Ah, I tried to read the documentation on how to extend Firefox and it’s really hard.” And you wouldn’t think it would be because Firefox has its reputation for being built on web technologies. You think it’ll just be JavaScript and HTML and the stuff that you’re used to do doing, but it’s not easy. So Firebug, It probably is stalling a bit just because it’s not a whole lot of fun to work on as project, I imagine.
凯文：是的，似乎是……“这是最新的兼容性更新”，主要是我从Firebug中看到的。 Firebug有点像-它最初是由一个人Joe Hewitt开发的，此人后来转而从事其他工作，据我所知，现在它主要由一群志愿者和一两个Mozilla员工维护。 ，但我不确定将其作为任何工作的重点。 而且，我也听到小道消息，其中包含一些非常丑陋的代码，它基本上迫使Firefox执行Firefox并非旨在执行的某些操作。 结果，代码不是特别漂亮。 我们已经在SitePoint上获得了PDF，我们已经开发了一些自己的Firebug附加组件，并且出版了一些免费的电子书，内容涉及如何编写自己的Firefox附加组件，这不是一个好过程。 我们之所以写这本书，是因为我们经常听到人们说：“啊，我试图阅读有关如何扩展Firefox的文档，这确实很困难。” 而且您不会以为这是因为Firefox因其基于Web技术而闻名。 您认为这只是JavaScript和HTML以及您惯常做的事情，但这并不容易。 So Firebug, It probably is stalling a bit just because it's not a whole lot of fun to work on as project, I imagine.
And speaking of things that are not fun to do, our last story is about installing PHP and other open source development environments on Windows. I have to say, I’ve written four editions of my PHP/MySQL book, and updating the installation section for Windows is the worst part of having to do an update of that book. And Microsoft it seems realizes this because they’ve released the Microsoft Web Platform Installer, also known as Web PI. They’ve gone to the trouble— They contacted us and wanted to sponsor on SitePoint an article covering how to use Microsoft Web PI. So this is a disclosure of sorts—that this article was sponsored by Microsoft, but it’s an article by SitePoint’s Louis Simoneau who basically goes through the process of using this web platform installer and shows it off.
And speaking of things that are not fun to do, our last story is about installing PHP and other open source development environments on Windows. I have to say, I've written four editions of my PHP/MySQL book, and updating the installation section for Windows is the worst part of having to do an update of that book. And Microsoft it seems realizes this because they've released the Microsoft Web Platform Installer, also known as Web PI. They've gone to the trouble— They contacted us and wanted to sponsor on SitePoint an article covering how to use Microsoft Web PI. So this is a disclosure of sorts—that this article was sponsored by Microsoft, but it's an article by SitePoint's Louis Simoneau who basically goes through the process of using this web platform installer and shows it off.
It’s really just a wizard installer that lets you install IIS, Microsoft Internet Information Services, a set of web platforms so you could get to pick and choose if you want PHP, if you want a MySQL database, those kind of things. And then actual web applications so you can say I want WordPress installed, I want SugarCRM installed, and there’s a whole gallery of web applications that will be automatically installed for you just by going through this wizard. And then it drops you off with a nice, perfectly configured development web server on your Windows machine. This has been around for a little while and there’s a reason Microsoft is going to the trouble of sponsoring an article on SitePoint, it’s because it’s not getting a lot of attraction. People seem to be not wanting to use this. I guess clearly the open source developers of the world are suspicious of anything Microsoft.
It's really just a wizard installer that lets you install IIS, Microsoft Internet Information Services, a set of web platforms so you could get to pick and choose if you want PHP, if you want a MySQL database, those kind of things. And then actual web applications so you can say I want WordPress installed, I want SugarCRM installed, and there's a whole gallery of web applications that will be automatically installed for you just by going through this wizard. And then it drops you off with a nice, perfectly configured development web server on your Windows machine. This has been around for a little while and there's a reason Microsoft is going to the trouble of sponsoring an article on SitePoint, it's because it's not getting a lot of attraction. People seem to be not wanting to use this. I guess clearly the open source developers of the world are suspicious of anything Microsoft.
Brad: I think a lot of that has to do with how well these applications work on Microsoft and it’s not the actual application’s fault, it’s usually the plug-ins and modules that load into the applications that people don’t test on Windows because they don’t use Windows. And so you know I actually had a WAMP stack I set up earlier in the year, manually, so I installed everything separate PHP, MySQL, Apache. Well I wasn’t using IIS, I was using Apache, but it was all on a Windows box. And I got WordPress working, everything worked fine, and we run a lot of sites that way for a long period of time, and we actually noticed over time there’s a lot of plug-ins that are just not compatible on a Windows server, and some pretty major plug-ins at that. Like the main Super Cache plug-in does not work on Windows very well. And I think a lot of people know that or they’ve tried it and they’ve coming to terms with the fact that, sure, they can install WordPress and out of the box it works great, but as soon as you start extending that, that these other add-ins and modules are not—they’re not thinking that when they’re building them so they’re not going to work exactly how they should on Windows.
Brad: I think a lot of that has to do with how well these applications work on Microsoft and it's not the actual application's fault, it's usually the plug-ins and modules that load into the applications that people don't test on Windows because they don't use Windows. And so you know I actually had a WAMP stack I set up earlier in the year, manually, so I installed everything separate PHP, MySQL, Apache. Well I wasn't using IIS, I was using Apache, but it was all on a Windows box. And I got WordPress working, everything worked fine, and we run a lot of sites that way for a long period of time, and we actually noticed over time there's a lot of plug-ins that are just not compatible on a Windows server, and some pretty major plug-ins at that. Like the main Super Cache plug-in does not work on Windows very well. And I think a lot of people know that or they've tried it and they've coming to terms with the fact that, sure, they can install WordPress and out of the box it works great, but as soon as you start extending that, that these other add-ins and modules are not—they're not thinking that when they're building them so they're not going to work exactly how they should on Windows.
Kevin: The third edition of my book actually used IIS. It guided the user through setting up PHP on IIS if that’s what the user wanted to do. And in the fourth edition, I decided that was just too much trouble and I threw away the IIS section and focused on Apache. If anything, what this installer does is makes it easy to set up IIS as a development environment for PHP which has been really painful in the past. IIS looks a lot better in Vista and Windows 7 than it has previously. It looks a lot better, but if anything it’s even more confusing than it used to be. There are almost more icons that you can click on in IIS’s configuration than there are in the control panel of a default Windows installation. And it’s no wonder that beginner developers would look at this and throw their hands up, especially since PHP is rarely deployed in production on IIS. Have you ever worked at a place, Brad, or ever worked for a client who wanted their PHP application setup on a Microsoft stack?
Kevin: The third edition of my book actually used IIS. It guided the user through setting up PHP on IIS if that's what the user wanted to do. And in the fourth edition, I decided that was just too much trouble and I threw away the IIS section and focused on Apache. If anything, what this installer does is makes it easy to set up IIS as a development environment for PHP which has been really painful in the past. IIS looks a lot better in Vista and Windows 7 than it has previously. It looks a lot better, but if anything it's even more confusing than it used to be. There are almost more icons that you can click on in IIS's configuration than there are in the control panel of a default Windows installation. And it's no wonder that beginner developers would look at this and throw their hands up, especially since PHP is rarely deployed in production on IIS. Have you ever worked at a place, Brad, or ever worked for a client who wanted their PHP application setup on a Microsoft stack?
Brad: Well no, not other than maybe a Windows server, but I’ve always pretty much said you can go Windows, but you need Apache just because it’s…
Brad: Well no, not other than maybe a Windows server, but I've always pretty much said you can go Windows, but you need Apache just because it's…
Kevin: So you’ve talked them out of it.
Kevin: So you've talked them out of it.
Brad: Yeah, just for the fact that—just tell them there’s going to be some overhead, there’s going to be a little more headache if you go the IIS route. Now this again was you know a little while ago so it looks like they’re starting to clear some of this up. I mean, I was looking at the screenshots and the installer for this is amazing. You just go through, kind of check what you want and hit ‘Go’ and it does. It downloads the packages directly from the software provider so WordPress comes from wordpress.org, so you make sure you’re getting the latest version, you’re not getting something…
Brad: Yeah, just for the fact that—just tell them there's going to be some overhead, there's going to be a little more headache if you go the IIS route. Now this again was you know a little while ago so it looks like they're starting to clear some of this up. I mean, I was looking at the screenshots and the installer for this is amazing. You just go through, kind of check what you want and hit 'Go' and it does. It downloads the packages directly from the software provider so WordPress comes from wordpress.org, so you make sure you're getting the latest version, you're not getting something…
Kevin: Yeah, it’s not a crafty sort of version that you get from Microsoft. ?Brad: I don’t know what else Microsoft can do because… this is… It’s awesome that they provide this and this is something I’ll probably definitely use down the road but you’re right. It’s a matter of kind of getting the word out there and getting people more comfortable with running PHP applications and things like that on Windows which is going to be the biggest bullet to bite.
Kevin: Yeah, it's not a crafty sort of version that you get from Microsoft. ？ Brad: I don't know what else Microsoft can do because… this is… It's awesome that they provide this and this is something I'll probably definitely use down the road but you're right. It's a matter of kind of getting the word out there and getting people more comfortable with running PHP applications and things like that on Windows which is going to be the biggest bullet to bite.
Kevin: I think if a developer were just wanting to learn PHP and they were going to deploy something to a server that someone else managed and they wanted to develop on Windows, I think I would recommend that they use this software to set up their development environment, at least initially. But if they were going to go down the path of administering their own server, then I would probably recommend that they set up Apache on their Windows box so that their development environment matched the deployment environment as closely as possible. I mean heck, at that point I would probably recommending they set up a virtual machine running on their Windows computer. A Linux virtual machine that matched the deployment environment exactly would be ideal. But yeah, for developers who just need to casually work on an open source technology stack on Windows, this is not a bad solution and I wish Microsoft the best of luck in winning a few developer hearts and minds with this.
Kevin: I think if a developer were just wanting to learn PHP and they were going to deploy something to a server that someone else managed and they wanted to develop on Windows, I think I would recommend that they use this software to set up their development environment, at least initially. But if they were going to go down the path of administering their own server, then I would probably recommend that they set up Apache on their Windows box so that their development environment matched the deployment environment as closely as possible. I mean heck, at that point I would probably recommending they set up a virtual machine running on their Windows computer. A Linux virtual machine that matched the deployment environment exactly would be ideal. But yeah, for developers who just need to casually work on an open source technology stack on Windows, this is not a bad solution and I wish Microsoft the best of luck in winning a few developer hearts and minds with this.
Patrick: Just like we said, you can’t be afraid of a big market share someone else’s favor right?
Patrick: Just like we said, you can't be afraid of a big market share someone else's favor right?
Kevin: There you go.
凯文：你去。
Kevin: So let’s finish up with our host spotlights here. Brad, what’s your spotlight this week?
Kevin: So let's finish up with our host spotlights here. Brad, what's your spotlight this week?
Brad: My spotlight this week is WordCamp New York City which actually starts Saturday, this Saturday. So it will be tomorrow when the podcast is released, November 14th and 15th in New York City. I’ll be there. I’m actually speaking on WordPress security so if anyone’s in the New York City area and looking for something to do, I think tickets are $40, relatively inexpensive. You get a t-shirt and some other cool schwag, so definitely check that out.
Brad: My spotlight this week is WordCamp New York City which actually starts Saturday, this Saturday. So it will be tomorrow when the podcast is released, November 14th and 15th in New York City. I'll be there. I'm actually speaking on WordPress security so if anyone's in the New York City area and looking for something to do, I think tickets are $40, relatively inexpensive. You get a t-shirt and some other cool schwag, so definitely check that out.
Kevin: Patrick?
凯文：帕特里克？
Patrick: So I like to keep things light generally so this is totally off topic but at CollegeHumor there is a video called CH Live NYC Kumail Nanjiani and it’s just a comedy routine and I laughed so hard at it and he’s talking about the Cyclone roller coaster on Coney Island. I’m sure Brad is probably familiar with this because it’s not too far I don’t think from where he is at least within a driving distance and it’s just really, really funny what he says and how he says it. And you know, I think you have to watch it and then you’ll appreciate that I sent you the link. So check it out. ?Kevin: And my spotlight is actually a bit self-serving. It’s something I did myself at the conference I mentioned. I gave a talk called ‘CSS Frameworks: Make the Right Choice’ and I have posted a video version of this talk. I screen-captured the animated versions of my slides and synchronized them up to the audio that was captured when I gave the talk at Web Directions South last month. So you can view my talk, listen in, and see the fully animated slides. I hope you’ll check it out on the SitePoint JavaScript in CSS blog.
Patrick: So I like to keep things light generally so this is totally off topic but at CollegeHumor there is a video called CH Live NYC Kumail Nanjiani and it's just a comedy routine and I laughed so hard at it and he's talking about the Cyclone roller coaster on Coney Island. I'm sure Brad is probably familiar with this because it's not too far I don't think from where he is at least within a driving distance and it's just really, really funny what he says and how he says it. And you know, I think you have to watch it and then you'll appreciate that I sent you the link. So check it out. ？ Kevin: And my spotlight is actually a bit self-serving. It's something I did myself at the conference I mentioned. I gave a talk called 'CSS Frameworks: Make the Right Choice' and I have posted a video version of this talk . I screen-captured the animated versions of my slides and synchronized them up to the audio that was captured when I gave the talk at Web Directions South last month. So you can view my talk, listen in, and see the fully animated slides. I hope you'll check it out on the SitePoint JavaScript in CSS blog.
And that brings us to the end of another show. Let’s go around the table guys.
And that brings us to the end of another show. Let's go around the table guys.
Brad: I’m Brad Williams from WebDevStudios.com and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba.
Brad: I'm Brad Williams from WebDevStudios.com and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba .
Patrick: I am Patrick O’Keefe for the iFroggy network, ifroggy.com. You can find me on Twitter @iFroggy.
Patrick: I am Patrick O'Keefe for the iFroggy network, ifroggy.com. You can find me on Twitter @iFroggy .
Kevin: And you can follow me on Twitter @sentience and SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom. Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on the show and to subscribe to get every show automatically, email podcast@sitepoint.com with your questions and feedback. We’d love to receive them.
Kevin: And you can follow me on Twitter @sentience and SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom . Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on the show and to subscribe to get every show automatically, email podcast@sitepoint.com with your questions and feedback. We'd love to receive them.
This episode of the SitePoint podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker and I’m Kevin Yank. Thanks for listening and we’ll miss you, Dan. Bye-bye.
This episode of the SitePoint podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker and I'm Kevin Yank. Thanks for listening and we'll miss you, Dan. 再见。
Theme music by Mike Mella.
Mike Mella的主题音乐。
Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.
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翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-36-dont-feed-the-trolls/
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