SitePoint播客＃43：被动共享

tech2024-01-03 74

Episode 43 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), and Kevin Yank (@sentience).

SitePoint Podcast的第43集现已发布！本周的主持人是Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )和Kevin Yank( @sentience )。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。这是链接：

SitePoint Podcast #43: Passive Over-sharing (MP3, 44.5MB)

SitePoint播客＃43：被动共享 (MP3，44.5MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Here are the topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主题：

Google Chrome Overtakes Safari Market Share

Google Chrome超过Safari市场份额

Chrome Beat Safari in December (TUAW)

十二月的Chrome Beat Safari (TUAW)

SitePoint Podcast #40

SitePoint播客＃40

Experimenting with HTML5 in the Real World

在真实世界中尝试HTML5

A Real-World Case Study On HTML5 (Newism)

HTML5的真实案例研究 (Newism)

A Form of Torture (Dive Into HTML5)

一种酷刑形式 (深入HTML5)

99designs

99个设计

MySQL in Danger of Acquisition by Oracle

MySQL面临被Oracle收购的危险

注册以保存MySQL？ (SitePoint)

Oracle Makes Commitments to Customers, Developers and Users of MySQL (Oracle)

Oracle对MySQL (Oracle)的客户，开发人员和用户作出承诺

Save MySQL!

保存MySQL！

Helpmysql.org campaign delivers first 14.000 signatures to competition authorities (Save MySQL!)

Helpmysql.org活动向竞争主管部门交付了第一个14.000个签名 (保存MySQL！)

Help keep the Internet free (Monty Says)

帮助保持互联网免费 (蒙蒂说)

Blippy

毛茸茸的

Introducing Blippy, the Shopaholic Social Network! (SitePoint)

购物狂社交网络Blippy隆重推出！ (SitePoint)

Blippy

毛茸茸的

MacBreak Weekly #173 (TWiT)

MacBreak周刊＃173 (TWiT)

Withings Wi-Fi Scale (Withings)

Withings Wi-Fi秤 (Withings)

Host Spotlights:

主持人聚光灯：

Patrick: The Top 10 Copyright Stories of the 2000s (Plagiarism Today)

帕特里克(Patrick)： 2000年代十大版权故事 (今日的lag窃主义)

Stephan: MagicPrefs

斯蒂芬： MagicPrefs

Kevin: InstaPaper (also PHP Advent and 24 ways)

凯文： InstaPaper (也是PHP Advent和24种方式 )

显示成绩单 (Show Transcript)

Kevin: January 8, 2010. Chrome overtakes Safari, MySQL is at risk, and is now the time to try HTML5? I’m Kevin Yank and this is the SitePoint Podcast #43: Passive Over-sharing.

凯文： 2010年1月8日。Chrome取代Safari，MySQL面临风险，现在该尝试HTML5了吗？我是Kevin Yank，这是SitePoint播客＃43：被动共享。

And welcome to the first news episode of the SitePoint Podcast for 2010. We had our interview with @garyvee last week, which was actually recorded before the New Year but it was a great way to ring in the New Year, Patrick, thanks for doing that.

欢迎收看2010年SitePoint播客的第一集。上周我们接受了@garyvee的采访，该采访实际上是在新年之前录制的，但是这是新年的好方法，Patrick，谢谢那。

Patrick: Thanks, Kevin and thanks for ruining the surprise about it being recorded in 2009. They had no idea.

帕特里克(Patrick)：谢谢，凯文(Kevin)，也感谢您破坏了2009年被录制的惊喜。他们不知道。

Kevin: (laugh) I don’t think anyone thought that you were up on New Year’s Day recording a podcast with Gary Vaynerchuk.

凯文：(笑)我认为没有人认为您在元旦那天和加里·韦纳楚克一起录制播客。

Kevin: You’re a dedicated guy, but I don’t expect that from you.

凯文：你是一个敬业的人，但是我不希望你这样。

Patrick: Okay, thank you.

帕特里克：好的，谢谢。

Kevin: We have Patrick O’Keefe with us today, resident Froggy at the iFroggy Network, which celebrated its 10 year anniversary this week?

凯文：今天我们有帕特里克·奥基夫(Patrick O'Keefe)，这是iFroggy网络的居民Froggy，该网络本周庆祝了其成立10周年？

Patrick: Yes, thank you for mentioning that, Kevin. I’m totally surprised. I’m totally surprised. No, I appreciate that. Yeah, it was 10 years since I registered the name which was on January 1, 2000 – Y2K. So after all the computers kind of blinked off and crashed, I was registering a domain name.

帕特里克：是的，谢谢你提到我，凯文。我很惊讶我很惊讶不，我很感激。是的，距离我注册2000年1月1日-Y2K已有10年了。因此，在所有计算机闪烁并崩溃之后，我正在注册一个域名。

Kevin: Well, yeah, geez, 10 years, it goes by fast.

凯文：嗯，是的，老天，十年过去了。

Patrick: Yeah.

帕特里克：是的。

Kevin: We also have Stephan Segraves with us today, recovering programmer from Houston, Texas.

凯文：我们今天也有斯蒂芬·塞格雷夫斯(Stephan Segraves)，我们正在从德克萨斯州休斯顿市恢复程序员。

Stephan, I understand the less said about what you’re doing, the better?

史蒂芬(Stephan)，我了解您所做的事情越少说越好？

Stephan: Yes.

斯蒂芬：是的。

Kevin: Well, fair enough.

凯文：好吧，很公平。

Let’s dive right in with our first story which is Google Chrome beating Safari’s market share in December. We spoke about Google Chrome in podcast #40, I think it was, last time we mentioned it and that’s when they brought out Chrome beta for Mac. It seems like it’s done them some good.

让我们深入探讨我们的第一个故事，即Google Chrome在12月击败Safari的市场份额。我们在播客40中谈到了Google Chrome浏览器，我想是在上次提到它的时候，那是他们推出Mac版Chrome浏览器测试版的时间。似乎对他们有所帮助。

Stephan: Yeah, I think it is. I mean it’s a good browser, it’s fast and the version for Mac is pretty stable and I haven’t had really any real issues. There is one quirk – the bookmarks. I can’t delete bookmarks. There’s no bookmarks manager.

斯蒂芬：是的，我认为是。我的意思是这是一个很好的浏览器，它运行很快，并且Mac版本非常稳定，我还没有遇到任何实际问题。有一个怪癖–书签。我无法删除书签。没有书签管理器。

Kevin: Yeah, there’s no bookmark manager.

凯文：是的，没有书签管理器。

Stephan: That irritates me.

史蒂芬：这让我很生气。

Kevin: That qualifies as alpha software for me. For beta, you got to at least be able to delete the things that you can create with the app.

凯文：这对我来说算是alpha软件。对于Beta版，您至少必须能够删除可以使用该应用创建的内容。

Stephan: Yeah, I know and I didn’t realize it until I had imported all my Safari bookmarks. I’m like aawww man, because I didn’t want them all.

史蒂芬：是的，我知道，直到导入所有Safari书签后我才意识到。我就像一个wwwwww的人，因为我不想要他们全部。

Kevin: So are you working on Google Chrome as your primary browser right now?

凯文：那么，您现在正在使用Google Chrome作为您的主要浏览器吗？

Stephan: I’m kind of using it as secondary, just playing with it. I still like Safari as my primary.

史蒂芬：我有点用它作为辅助，只是玩弄它。我仍然喜欢Safari作为我的主要浏览器。

Kevin: Well, I presume if you really waned to get rid of your bookmarks, you could go in and delete the bookmark file or something like that…. Something hacky.

凯文：好吧，我想如果您真的想摆脱书签，可以进入并删除书签文件之类的东西。骇人听闻的东西。

Stephan: Yeah, but I’m not going to worry about it you know. I’d just rather play around with it and it’s fun to play around with because it’s so fast. I mean it’s really fast. I like it.

斯蒂芬：是的，但是我不会担心的。我只想玩一玩，玩起来很有趣，因为它是如此之快。我的意思是真的很快。我喜欢。

Kevin: So Safari tried the same trick and I had to look this up because I couldn’t really believe it but mid-2007 is when Safari for Windows was first announced as a beta at Apple’s Worldwide Developers Conference. So it’s been 2½ years since we’ve had Safari for Windows but just by releasing a version for a new platform, the Mac, Chrome has jumped, leapfrogged Safari’s market share. I don’t know.

凯文(Kevin)： Safari尝试了相同的技巧，我不得不仔细查一下，因为我不敢相信，但是2007年年中，Windows的Safari在Apple的全球开发者大会上首次宣布为Beta版。因此，距离我们拥有适用于Windows的Safari已有2.5年了，但是仅仅通过发布适用于Mac的新平台的版本，Chrome便跃升了Safari的市场份额。我不知道。

What’s the lesson here? Is Apple wasting its time developing a browser?

这是什么教训？苹果是否在浪费时间开发浏览器？

Stephan: I think it’s just the Google name. That’s all.

史蒂芬：我想这只是Google的名字。就这样。

I mean, I think there’s a place for it but I still think that Safari is a great browser. Firefox is a great browser. So I don’t know. I guess I don’t understand the jump. Maybe it’s a lot of people bandwagon jumpers you know, “Let’s try it out,” and who knows.

我的意思是，我认为这里有个地方，但我仍然认为Safari是一个很棒的浏览器。 Firefox是一个很棒的浏览器。所以我不知道我想我不理解跳跃。也许有很多人都知道，“让我们尝试一下”，谁知道。

Kevin: Are you still wrestling with Firefox, Patrick?

凯文：帕特里克，您还在和Firefox搏斗吗？

Patrick: Yeah, I use Firefox primarily, actually, really exclusively and I haven’t really even tried Chrome, I don’t think… maybe since the first hoopla about it way back when but now I just had no reason.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，实际上，我主要是专门使用Firefox，我什至没有真正尝试过使用Chrome，我不认为……也许自从第一次出现hoopla以来，但现在我没有理由了。

Stephan: I will say that I use Chrome primarily at work, like it’s my primarily browser at work.

史蒂芬：我会说我主要在工作中使用Chrome，就像我主要在工作中使用浏览器一样。

Kevin: Really?

凯文：真的吗？

Stephan: Yeah, on Windows and Safari is my backup on Windows.

史蒂芬：是的，在Windows和Safari上，这是我在Windows上的备份。

Kevin: On Windows? Wow, you must be one of the few Safari users on Windows.

凯文：在Windows上？哇，您一定是Windows上为数不多的Safari用户之一。

Stephan: I just like how lightweight it is. I don’t have a great computer at work.

斯蒂芬：我只是喜欢它的轻巧。我没有一台出色的计算机在工作。

Kevin: Yeah. I’m a Safari user as well but I find that Safari is the browser that still has the most compatibility issues. I mean maybe Opera would have a lot of compatibility issues if I used that.

凯文：是的。我也是Safari用户，但我发现Safari是仍然存在最多兼容性问题的浏览器。我的意思是，如果使用Opera，Opera可能会有很多兼容性问题。

Stephan: With like with what though? Like what?

斯蒂芬：虽然喜欢什么？像什么？

Kevin: Just things… mainly web applications, things that use JavaScript that aren’t as well-maintained as others. I mean, as much as we like Libsyn that we use to host this podcast but their web interface for looking at statistics about our podcast listeners isn’t quite compatible with Safari. It broke when Safari 4 came out and they’ve never gotten around of fixing it and it just seems like Safari, because of its small market share, is a second class browser in a lot of developers’ eyes. It doesn’t get the level of testing and the level of immediate fixes with new releases as other browsers do. So Firefox tends to be the browser that I open up either for developing because I’m more familiar with its developer tools or to overcome issues like this.

凯文：只是……主要是Web应用程序，那些使用JavaScript的东西并没有得到很好的维护。我的意思是，就像我们喜欢使用Libsyn来托管此播客一样，但是它们用于查看播客侦听器统计信息的Web界面与Safari不太兼容。当Safari 4推出时，它就崩溃了，他们一直没有解决它，而且看起来Safari由于其市场份额很小，在很多开发人员看来都是第二流的浏览器。它无法像其他浏览器一样获得测试水平以及新版本的即时修复水平。因此，Firefox往往是我开放用于开发的浏览器，因为我对它的开发人员工具更加熟悉，或者可以克服这样的问题。

I find certain sites download files in a hinky way that Safari doesn’t quite support. I end up getting files downloaded as the filename of the script that generated them rather than the actual filename that I’m expecting, whereas Firefox works properly. And again, I’m sure that’s just a subtle coding issue that they haven’t tested for just because Safari isn’t on their radar the way Firefox is.

我发现某些网站以Safari不太支持的方式下载文件。我最终将文件下载为生成文件的脚本文件名，而不是我期望的实际文件名，而Firefox可以正常工作。再说一次，我确定这只是他们尚未测试的一个细微的编码问题，这是因为Safari并没有像Firefox那样受到Safari的关注。

Stephan: Yeah. Yeah, I can understand that.

斯蒂芬：是的。是的，我能理解。

Kevin: Well, hopefully, Apple finds a way to make their browser – I don’t want to say relevant because it is still the default browser for Mac users, but it’s surprising. Mac is garnering some great market share and yet the default browser on the Mac isn’t as much. So a lot of Mac users must, as their first step, install something like Firefox.

凯文：好吧，希望苹果公司找到一种制作他们的浏览器的方法–我不想说相关，因为它仍然是Mac用户的默认浏览器，但这很令人惊讶。 Mac赢得了很大的市场份额，但是Mac上的默认浏览器却没有那么多。因此，许多Mac用户必须首先安装Firefox之类的东西。

Stephan: Which I find kind of interesting because – I mean Safari is a good browser right out of the box. I guess I don’t understand why people would want to go and – I mean, unless that they’re using websites that it automatically always breaks and the only websites I’ve had issues with on the Mac are things that are Microsoft generated usually.

史蒂芬：我觉得这很有趣，因为–我的意思是Safari是开箱即用的优秀浏览器。我想我不明白人们为什么要去，并且–我的意思是，除非他们使用的网站会自动中断，并且我在Mac上遇到的唯一网站是Microsoft通常生成的内容。

The Safari breaks like on Outlook for the Web or whatever it’s called, it breaks it and can’t use it. So things like that annoy me but other than that, Safari seems to get the job done for the most part.

Safari像在Web上的Outlook或类似的Outlook上一样折断，它折断了并且无法使用。这样的事情让我很烦，但除此之外，Safari似乎可以完成大部分工作。

Kevin: HTML5 in the real world. Have either of you done any experimentation with HTML5 at all?

凯文：现实世界中HTML5。你们有没有对HTML5做过任何试验？

Stephan: I haven’t touched it yet. I was reading through the forums. There’s a tutorial out there on forms. I can’t remember who wrote it but I was reading through that, and it looks like it’s pretty verbose. I like that.

斯蒂芬：我还没碰过。我正在阅读论坛。有一个关于表格的教程。我不记得是谁写的，但我正在阅读，看起来很冗长。我喜欢。

Kevin: Yeah, this is Mark Pilgrim’s Dive Into HTML5 book?

凯文：是的，这是马克·皮尔格里姆(Mark Pilgrim)的Dive Into HTML5书吗？

Stephan: Yes, yes, that’s the one. Yes.

斯蒂芬：是的，就是那个。是。

Kevin: Yeah, it’s good. We’ll have to put a link to that.

凯文：是的，很好。我们必须为此添加一个链接。

Stephan: Yeah, it’s good.

斯蒂芬：是的，很好。

Kevin: This blog post from Australian web design from Newism documents their experience actually using HTML5 for the first time. For the first time. There’s a lot of people out there talking a lot about HTML5 and arguing point and counterpoint on the little details of the spec but there’s one big stumbling block when it comes to actually using HTML5 and that’s that Internet Explorer doesn’t handle unknown elements the way other browsers do. The way we expect browsers to work is that if they don’t understand an HTML tag, they’ll effectively ignore it. They won’t apply any formatting to it by default but if you want to go and apply your own CSS styles to that, that tag that it doesn’t recognize, you should have that freedom to do it.

凯文(Kevin)：这篇来自Newism的澳大利亚网页设计的博客文章首次记录了他们实际使用HTML5的经验。首次。有很多人谈论HTML5，并就规范的一些小细节争论不休，但是在实际使用HTML5时有一个很大的绊脚石，那就是Internet Explorer无法以这种方式处理未知元素其他浏览器也可以。我们期望浏览器工作的方式是，如果他们不理解HTML标记，他们将有效地忽略它。默认情况下，它们不会对其应用任何格式，但是如果您想对它应用自己CSS样式(它无法识别的标签)，则应该具有执行此操作的自由。

But for whatever reason, Internet Explorer doesn’t treat unknown tags that way. If you’ve got a start tag and an end tag, it treats the start tag as the start and end of that unknown element and then it ignores your end tag later. So in order to get HTML5 tags like <header> and <footer> and <section> and those kinds of things to work in Internet Explorer, you need to add some JavaScript to the top of every HTML5 document that kind of forces Internet Explorer’s hand. It exploits some quirky behavior that can actually trick Internet Explorer into recognizing and treating these elements properly. And so a lot of people avoid using HTML5 as soon as they learn that, in order for the site to display properly in Internet Explorer, they’re going to have to have JavaScript enabled on all of their clients’ browsers. That seems like a big enough reason not to use it and so most people shy away from it.

但是无论出于何种原因，Internet Explorer都不会以这种方式处理未知标签。如果您有一个开始标签和一个结束标签，它将开始标签视为该未知元素的开始和结束，然后在以后忽略您的结束标签。因此，为了获得诸如<header>和<footer>和<section>类HTML5标签以及这些在Internet Explorer中起作用的东西，您需要在每个HTML5文档的顶部添加一些JavaScript，以迫使Internet Explorer发挥作用。它利用了一些古怪的行为，这些行为实际上可以诱使Internet Explorer正确识别和处理这些元素。因此，很多人一听说就会避免使用HTML5，为了使该网站在Internet Explorer中正确显示，他们将不得不在所有客户端的浏览器上启用JavaScript。这似乎是一个足够大的理由不使用它，因此大多数人都避开了它。

But Newism had – I guess it was the perfect project for this kind of thing. It was a one-page only design project for a law firm and they said “To heck with it, we’re going to use HTML5.” So they did it, whole hog with all of these elements that most developers aren’t even aware of; they’ve just heard of them in connection with HTML5. They tried out <article> and <header> and <footer> and <section> and found it really changed the way that they approached coding.

但是，Newism拥有-我想这对于这种事情是完美的项目。对于一家律师事务所来说，这是一个只有一页的设计项目，他们说：“对此，我们将使用HTML5。” 因此，他们做到了，把大多数开发人员甚至不知道的所有这些要素都花在了脑海上。他们刚刚听说过与HTML5有关的内容。他们试用了<article>和<header>和<footer>和<section> ，发现它们确实改变了他们进行编码的方式。

Did you read this blog post, Stephan?

您是否读过这篇博客文章，Stephan？

Stephan: I read part of it, yeah. It’s interesting that they can – just the way they went about it is really cool.

斯蒂芬：我读了一部分，是的。他们可以做到很有趣-他们做事的方式真的很酷。

Kevin: I’m not sure I would recommend anyone else to do the same experiment unless you have that sort of perfect low-risk project like Newism did. The only people I knew who were actively working with HTML5 were the guys at 99designs and for those who don’t know, 99designs used to be SitePoint Contests within the SitePoint Forums but they have split off into their own company but they’re still working with us at SitePoint Headquarters and I knew that they were doing some experimentation with HTML5 but in a more conservative way than the Newism folks did. So I went down and I cornered Adam Schilling, their front end developer, for a few minutes and here’s what he had to say:

凯文：我不确定我是否会建议其他人做同样的实验，除非您有像Newism这样的完美的低风险项目。我认识的唯一积极使用HTML5的人是99designs的人员，对于不认识HTML5的人，99designs曾经是SitePoint论坛中的SitePoint竞赛，但他们已经拆分成自己的公司，但他们仍在工作在SitePoint总部与我们合作，我知道他们正在对HTML5进行一些试验，但采用的方式比Newism人士更为保守。所以我走了，我和他们的前端开发人员Adam Schilling纠缠了几分钟，这是他不得不说的：

Kevin: I’m here with Adam Schilling, the Designer and resident Front End Ninja in 99designs and I wanted to talk to you, Adam, because I know 99designs recently did a bit of an experiment by putting a bit of HTML5 into its home page. Is that right?

凯文：我在这里与99designs的设计师兼常驻忍者Front End Ninja Adam Schilling在一起，我想和你谈谈Adam，因为我知道99designs最近通过在其主页上放置一些HTML5进行了一些实验。那正确吗？

Adam: Yes, that’s right. The front page is now, in a pseudo sense, compliant with HTML5.

亚当：是的，是的。现在，首页从某种程度上讲符合HTML5。

Kevin: What does that mean, a pseudo sense?

凯文：这是什么意思？

Adam: Well, we’re not using all the new elements strictly that are in HTML5 particularly the ones that aren’t covered by Internet Explorer but in place of those, we are using class names that are representative of those new elements. And so we’re sort of still thinking in terms of HTML5 but not necessarily using the full HTML5 spec.

亚当：嗯，我们并没有严格使用HTML5中的所有新元素，尤其是Internet Explorer尚未涵盖的元素，但我们使用的是代表这些新元素的类名。因此，我们仍在考虑HTML5，但不一定要使用完整HTML5规范。

Kevin: So what are some of these elements that you’re representing as class names at the moment?

凯文：那么您现在以类名表示的这些元素中有哪些？

Adam: Right, so things like <nav>, for example, wherever we have navigation, we’re using the nav element as a class and sort of using ID to sort of distinguish between the various nav elements but we get this nice crossover effect, just using Cascading Style Sheets to sort of bring those all together.

亚当：是的，例如<nav>类的东西，例如，无论我们在哪里导航，我们都使用nav元素作为类，并使用ID来区分各种nav元素，但是我们得到了很好的交叉效果，只需使用级联样式表将所有这些组合在一起即可。

Kevin: So you use a <div> with class="nav" or a list with class="nav"?

凯文：那么您将<div>与class="nav"还是将列表与class="nav" ？

Adam: That’s correct.

亚当：是的。

Kevin: Right. So why did you do this and are you happy you did?

凯文：对。那么，为什么要这样做呢？您为自己所做的感到高兴吗？

Adam: Oh yeah definitely, and I think this would be the way that we want to continue forward. We’ve wanted to try HTML5 because there’s a lot of talk about it and we wanted to sort of be – you know, we wanted our side to be relevant, we wanted to learn by using the new spec particularly with the decision sort of coming out that XHTML2 wasn’t going to sort of go forward and we needed a front page redesign and it just seemed logical. When we’d figured out that we could use pseudo-HTML5 to sort of complete the whole from page redesign, it just became an interesting experiment and one that didn’t really have any downsides.

亚当：好的，是的，我想这就是我们想要继续前进的方式。我们之所以想尝试HTML5，是因为有很多关于它的讨论，并且我们希望成为-您知道我们希望我们这一方面与我们息息相关，我们希望通过使用新规范来学习，尤其是在即将做出决策时XHTML2不会继续发展，我们需要对首页进行重新设计，这似乎合乎逻辑。当我们确定可以使用伪HTML5从页面重新设计中完成整个过程时，这只是一个有趣的实验，并且没有任何不利之处。

Kevin: So yeah, I mean the only real code that you could point at and say “that is HTML5 code” would be the DOCTYPE at the top of the page, right?

凯文：是的，我的意思是，您可以指向的唯一真正的代码就是“ HTML5代码”，它是页面顶部的DOCTYPE，对吗？

Adam: Essentially, yeah.

亚当：从本质上讲，是的。

Kevin: Yeah and I think the <meta> tag that says the character set that you’re using.

凯文：是的，我认为<meta>标签表明您正在使用的字符集。

Adam: Yeah, we’re using a sort of a minimal definition for specifying UTF-8.

亚当：是的，我们正在使用一种用于定义UTF-8的最小定义。

Kevin: So what would it take for you guys to take the same plunge that Newism did? Obviously, they had a pretty cherry project. It was one page, they could take some risks and have a bit of a play with it, and if anything went wrong, it’s just one page. They can revert back to the old way of doing things. What’s keeping you from taking that leap in the work you’re doing?

凯文：那么你们要承受与Newism相同的跌势呢？显然，他们有一个漂亮的樱桃项目。这是一页纸，他们可能会冒一些风险并对此有所了解，如果出现任何问题，那只是一页纸。他们可以恢复到旧的做事方式。是什么让您无法在工作中取得飞跃？

Adam: For us it’s purely about the new elements that aren’t recognized by IE and we’re just not prepared to go the JavaScript throughout. It just doesn’t make sense to sort of take that big risk. With everything we do, wherever we’re using JavaScript rather, we’re trying to write code that can fall back on something that’s still usable and still resembles somewhat what the user has come to expect in previous incarnations of the site, so yeah.

亚当：对我们来说，这纯粹是IE无法识别的新元素，我们只是不准备将JavaScript贯穿于整个过程。冒那么大的风险只是没有道理。无论我们在使用JavaScript的任何地方，我们所做的一切，我们都在尝试编写可依赖于仍然可用且仍然与用户在网站以前的版本中所期望的内容有些相似的代码。

Kevin: Nevertheless it’s an interesting experiment to read about. I mean did you learn anything?

凯文：尽管如此，这是一个有趣的实验。我的意思是你学到了什么吗？

Adam: Well, it was interesting to see another account of how it was – a lot of what they have come across I’d come across as well and I was faced with the decision at the beginning of the process of whether or not we’d use this JavaScript alternative.

亚当：好吧，很有趣的是，我又看到了一个关于它是如何发生的情况，我也曾遇到过很多事情，而且我在程序开始时就面临着决定的问题。 d使用此JavaScript替代方法。

Kevin: I mean I guess you probably, in order to get your pseudo HTML 5 working that same way, did you read the spec and then think back to how that would translate?

凯文：我的意思是，我想您可能是为了使伪HTML 5以相同的方式工作，您是否读过规范，然后回想起该如何翻译？

Adam: Yeah, I remember reading up about <header> and <footer> specifically and at the time there was—I mean there might still be—a fair bit of debate about why these new elements should be used. There’s a camp that is fixed on the idea that <footer> is something that sort of happens at the base of your page only, it’s not sort of happening within articles or sections, and there’s another camp that sort of saying in terms of like a byline or something, per-article or per-post you can have footage nested.

亚当：是的，我记得我专门读过关于<header>和<footer>的内容，当时(我的意思是可能还会有)关于为什么应使用这些新元素的争论颇多。有一个阵营被固定为这样的观念，即<footer>只是在页面的基础上发生的某种事情，不是在文章或章节中发生的，还有另一种阵营的说法是可以按行或按文章，按文章或按帖子嵌套。

Kevin: Yeah, I’m pretty sure the official thinking on that has actually changed since the 99designs home page was done. So that’s something that you probably would have done differently than what we’re seeing in the Newism example. So in short, pseudo HTML 5 is what you’d recommend at the moment to someone building a new site?

凯文：是的，我敢肯定，自完成99designs主页以来，官方的想法实际上已经改变。因此，这可能与我们在Newism示例中看到的不同。简而言之，您现在向构建新网站的人建议使用伪HTML 5？

Adam: Absolutely, absolutely.

亚当：绝对，绝对。

Kevin: Thanks.

凯文：谢谢。

Adam: Thank you.

亚当：谢谢。

Kevin: So based on that chat with Adam, I think SitePoint is going to have to publish an article about pseudo-HTML5 because much as I’d like to tell everyone to go out and find just the right project in 2010 to experiment with some real HTML5 code, I think the downsides… as much as Newism pulled it off, I think there are big enough downsides to using HTML5 in the real world right now that I can’t really recommend it.

凯文：因此，根据与亚当的交谈，我认为SitePoint将不得不发表一篇有关伪HTML5的文章，因为我想告诉大家，在2010年出去寻找合适的项目来尝试一些真正HTML5代码，我认为不利之处……正如Newism所提出的一样，我认为现在有足够大的缺点要在现实世界中使用HTML5，因为我不能真正推荐它。

One that I need to ask the Newism guys about, because they didn’t mention it, but something that’s come on my radar as I’ve been researching this is that even if you apply the JavaScript to a page, Internet Explorer won’t use that JavaScript when you print the page. So even though the page may look right in the browser, if you wanted to print it, it’ll then display that page without the JavaScript code when it goes to print it and it could break your layout just like that.

我需要询问Newism的有关人员，因为他们没有提及它，但是在我进行研究时，我想知道的是，即使将JavaScript应用于页面，Internet Explorer也不会打印页面时使用该JavaScript。因此，即使页面可能在浏览器中看起来正确，但是如果您要打印该页面，那么它将在打印页面时显示该页面而没有JavaScript代码，这样可能会破坏您的布局。

So it’s a risky thing they’ve done. I congratulate them for doing it. I think for most people you need to try and find a way to do this pseudo-HTML5 that 99designs are doing. Keep your HTML4 elements but start using HTML5 structures so that when the time comes to really use HTML5, you’re familiar with that way of doing things.

因此，他们这样做是冒险的。我祝贺他们这样做。我认为对于大多数人来说，您需要尝试找到一种方法来完成这种99designs正在做的伪HTML5。保留您HTML4元素，但开始使用HTML5结构，以便真正使用HTML5时，您就会熟悉这种处理方式。

On a less technical bent, we have MySQL in danger of acquisition by Oracle. The Web is up in arms. It seems like everywhere I look I’m reading about this effort to keep MySQL out of the clutches of Oracle.

出于技术上的考虑，我们有MySQL被Oracle收购的危险。网络势不可挡。似乎到处都是我正在读的有关将MySQL与Oracle隔离开来的努力。

Guys, have you read about this?

伙计们，你读过这个吗？

Stephan: Yeah, I thought it was dead like six months ago.

斯蒂芬：是的，我以为它像六个月前就死了。

Kevin: I think a lot of people did. Oracle said they wanted to buy MySQL. The European Commission said that’s not going to happen, and everyone sort of thought they could rest easy.

凯文：我想很多人都做过。 Oracle表示，他们想购买MySQL。欧盟委员会表示这不会发生，每个人都认为他们可以安心。

Stephan: Yeah and I guess not.

斯蒂芬：是的，我想不是。

Kevin: It seems like Oracle put up a statement saying these are all of the evil things we promise not to do with MySQL if you let us acquire it and the European Commission made some noises saying, well, this is an important – they’re turning over a new leaf and I think this maybe the thing that turns the deal in their favor and it sounded like they were going to let it go ahead.

凯文：好像Oracle发表声明说，如果您让我们收购MySQL，这些都是我们承诺不会与MySQL一起做的所有邪恶的事情，而欧洲委员会则大声疾呼，这很重要，它们很重要。翻开新的一页，我想这也许是使交易有利于他们的事情，而且听起来好像他们要继续进行下去。

So the creator of MySQL, Monty, as most people know him, he started a petition at HelpMySQL.org and he’s asking for anyone all over the world who cares about MySQL and wants to make sure it doesn’t get acquired and killed by Oracle to sign up. It was launched over the holidays. I think it’s pretty much not the worst time of year to try and do something like this but things were moving fast. He was afraid that the European Commission was going to approve this over the holiday, so he launched the petition and in just one week over the holidays, they collected 14,000 signatures. As of January 4th, that’s the number that they presented to the authorities and in the couple of days since then up to this recording, they’re now up to 21,326 signatures. At this point they’re collecting over 2,000 new signatures a day. But yeah, they say in less than one week, this is quoting from their press release, “During the holiday season, we gathered 50 times more support than Oracle claimed three weeks ago when it presented a few hundred orchestrated letters from customers to the European Commission.”

因此，MySQL的创建者Monty，正如大多数人所了解的那样，他在HelpMySQL.org上发起了一份请愿书，他正在征求全世界关心MySQL并希望确保它不会被Oracle收购并杀死的任何人。注册。它是在假期推出的。我认为这不是一年中最糟糕的时间去尝试做这样的事情，但是事情进展很快。他担心欧盟委员会会在假期期间批准此举，因此他发起了请愿书，假期刚过一个星期，他们就收集了14,000个签名。截至1月4日，这就是他们向当局提交的电话号码，从那以后直到录制此唱片的几天之内，现在他们已收到21,326个签名。目前，他们每天要收集2,000多个新签名。是的，他们说在不到一周的时间内引用了他们的新闻稿：“在假期期间，我们获得的支持比三周前Oracle提出的数百份客户精心策划的来信向欧洲客户提供的支持要多50倍佣金。”

So it sounds like Monty has numbers on his side.

因此，听起来Monty身边有数字。

But Stephan, what do you think about this? Is Oracle acquiring MySQL really that disastrous a proposition?

但是斯蒂芬，你对此怎么看？ Oracle收购MySQL真是一个灾难性的提议吗？

Stephan: I’m not really sure they’re going to kill it. I don’t think they would. I think that they would have an uprising but they might. I mean, I think he said that they apparently lose a billion dollars a year to MySQL installations. So a billion dollars is a good chunk of money to any company. So maybe killing it is not a bad idea for them.

史蒂芬：我不确定他们会杀了它。我认为他们不会。我认为他们会起义，但他们可能会起义。我的意思是，我认为他说，他们显然每年因MySQL安装而损失10亿美元。因此，十亿美元对任何公司来说都是一笔巨款。因此，杀死它对他们来说不是一个坏主意。

Kevin: Is that one of those numbers like when the music studios say “We lost $50 trillion to piracy this year”, counting everyone who downloaded an MP3 file illegally as someone who would have otherwise bought that album? Is this one of those artificial numbers that if Oracle killed MySQL, would they really get a billion dollars in business or would another open source database spring up and everyone move to that?

凯文：这是音乐工作室说“今年我们因盗版而损失了50万亿美元”的数字之一吗？将所有非法下载MP3文件的人都算作原本会购买该唱片的人吗？如果Oracle杀死了MySQL，这是否是人为因素之一，他们真的会获得十亿美元的业务，还是会出现另一个开放源代码数据库，并且所有人都朝那个方向发展？

Stephan: Yeah, I don’t know.

斯蒂芬：是的，我不知道。

Kevin: That’s what I think.

凯文：这就是我的想法。

Patrick: Yeah, I don’t think Oracle said that and for the sake of disclosure, I’m actually an Oracle shareholder, but I found Monty’s points interesting. I think it’s an interesting story just because of how important MySQL is to countless websites, how many people run MySQL and don’t even think about it, how many open source software scripts already just simply run on MySQL right out of the box from forum software (which is what I use) to everything else?

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我不认为Oracle这么说，为了公开起见，我实际上是Oracle的股东，但是我发现蒙蒂的观点很有趣。我认为这是一个有趣的故事，仅仅是因为MySQL在无数的网站中起着多么重要的作用，有多少人在运行MySQL，甚至根本没有考虑过，有多少开源软件脚本已经直接在MySQL上直接在论坛上运行软件(这是我使用的)用于其他所有功能？

No, he’s looking for two things: Oracle to either divest MySQL or to change the license of it to a more permissive open source license. I mean obviously if Oracle buys Sun, MySQL is a part of that package. I don’t know if Oracle has an obligation to make nice or how important Monty’s thoughts are. I think it’s a political war on some levels. What he may call the letters contrived or well-orchestrated 300 or hundreds of letters, I’m sure those are letters with real names attached to them, real companies where an online petition with 14,000 and plus may or may not be influential if he wants to tie the names, who these people are, how influential are they, how many customers do they have and what their influence is because at the end of the day, a hundreds of letters with real names associated with them could be worth way more than 14,000 random signatures on an online petition. I think it’ll be interesting to watch just because of the influence of MySQL. I don’t know. I’m not particularly worried but he seems to be and obviously, it was his baby so that makes me pause for sure.

不，他正在寻找两件事：Oracle放弃MySQL或将其许可证更改为更宽松的开源许可证。我的意思是，很明显，如果Oracle购买Sun，MySQL就是其中的一部分。我不知道Oracle是否有义务变得友善或蒙蒂的思想多么重要。我认为这在一定程度上是一场政治战争。他可能将其称为人为捏造或精心设计的300或数百个字母，我相信这些字母是附有真实姓名的字母，是真实公司，在线请愿书为14,000及以上的字母可能会或可能不会产生影响绑上名字，这些人是谁，他们有多大影响力，他们有多少客户，他们的影响力是什么，因为在一天结束时，数百个与他们相关的真实姓名的信件可能比在线请愿书上有14,000个随机签名。我认为仅由于MySQL的影响，观看会很有趣。我不知道。我并不特别担心，但他似乎确实很显然，那是他的孩子，这使我肯定停下来。

Kevin: You’re right that the unique position, the fact that MySQL is so crucial to the Web at the moment makes it – even if it’s a small risk that Oracle are going to do the wrong thing or that MySQL will suffer as a result of an acquisition … with any other product I might say, well, let’s take the risk and let the market sort it out but with MySQL, that’s a big risk to take.

凯文(Kevin)：没错，这种独特的地位，即MySQL目前对Web至关重要的事实使它成为现实-即使Oracle将做错事或MySQL遭受此后果的风险很小收购……我可能会说其他任何产品，好吧，让我们冒险，让市场进行分类，但是对于MySQL，这是一个很大的风险。

Patrick: Yeah, I don’t think there’s any doubt about that and I think that’s why there’s an uprising. I don’t know. I guess the EC or whatever the regulatory boards are will have to get some experts in there, some technology people. I’m sure they already have them to sit in there because this is a really techie, tech-savvy discussion as far as databases and what that means because even the majority of the customers of MySQL and of Oracle’s databases really aren’t that technically involved with them. So it will be interesting to see how high level those discussions are and what the end result is.

帕特里克：是的，我不对此有任何疑问，我认为这就是起义的原因。我不知道。我想欧共体或任何监管机构都必须聘请一些专家，一些技术人员。我敢肯定他们已经坐在那里，因为就数据库而言，这是一个真正的技术专家，精通技术，这意味着什么，因为即使MySQL和Oracle数据库的大多数客户实际上在技术上也并非如此参与其中。因此，有趣的是，这些讨论的层次和最终结果是什么。

Stephan: I was going to say let’s not forget that Sun bought MySQL for a billion dollars, right? I think that was the original purchase price. Maybe that’s where Monty is getting his number and I think that people need to remember why Sun bought MySQL and why they want it.

史蒂芬：我要说的是，我们不要忘记Sun以10亿美元的价格收购了MySQL，对吗？我认为那是原始购买价格。也许正是Monty获得他的电话的地方，我认为人们需要记住Sun为什么购买MySQL以及他们为什么想要它。

Kevin: Why?! I couldn’t figure it out at the time!

凯文：为什么？当时我不知道！

Stephan: I couldn’t figure it… that’s my point is you can’t, you can’t tell me why Sun bought it. The only reason I can think of is that they had a connector, right? They have JDBC and they wanted a database to pass out with Java.

史蒂芬：我想不通……那是我的观点，就是你不能，你不能告诉我为什么Sun买了它。我能想到的唯一原因是它们具有连接器，对吗？他们有JDBC，他们希望数据库能随Java一起发布。

Patrick: Well, here’s the thing, I think his post… it’s a long post but there’s an FAQ in there because he’s definitely invested in this from a business perspective because he benefited from the sale of MySQL to Sun. He got a portion of that money, and he is in this business of forking MySQL. I mean I’m sure he has the best of intentions – not judging in any way – but he definitely has his own conflicts here and one of the questions that he answers is “Sun paid a billion for MySQL. What did Sun buy?”, and he says they bought the MySQL trademark, they bought the copyright to the MySQL server and other components, in his opinion, control of the MySQL economic ecosystem, access to their community of 15 million users and 15 million installations, their customer contracts, their core developer contracts and all other assets of MySQL AB. So that is what he says they got for a billion dollars.

帕特里克(Patrick)：恩，我想这是他的帖子……这是一篇很长的文章，但是里面有一个常见问题解答，因为他肯定从商业角度投资于此，因为他受益于将MySQL卖给Sun。他得到了一部分钱，并且从事MySQL的这项业务。我的意思是，我确定他有最好的意图-不能以任何方式进行判断-但他在这里肯定有自己的矛盾，他回答的问题之一是“ Sun向MySQL支付了10亿美元。 Sun买了什么？”，他说他们购买了MySQL商标，购买了MySQL服务器和其他组件的版权，他认为，这是对MySQL经济生态系统的控制，拥有1500万用户和1500万用户安装，客户合同，核心开发人员合同以及MySQL AB的所有其他资产。这就是他说的，他们得到了十亿美元。

Obviously there is value there in the customer contracts in the community. I guess the catch with these communities, with open source communities. and when they become a business item or an object is always how do you monetize those properties. It’s a services business. Obviously, Sun saw a value in that and now Sun is now looking to go with Oracle where they had been hated competitors in the past. Monty says that he was on board with Sun because he felt the company was the right one to have MySQL under their umbrella but obviously, he doesn’t feel that way about Oracle.

显然，社区中的客户合同具有价值。我猜想这些社区和开源社区有什么收获。当它们成为业务项目或对象时，始终是如何通过这些属性获利的。这是一项服务业务。显然，Sun看到了这一点的价值，现在Sun现在希望与Oracle一起竞争，Oracle在过去曾是他们讨厌的竞争对手。蒙蒂说，他之所以加入Sun，是因为他认为该公司是将MySQL纳入其保护范围的合适人选，但显然，他对Oracle并不这么认为。

Kevin: Well, yeah, reading his big Frequently Asked Questions, the key difference for him is the fact that Oracle has a competing product in their Oracle database, various incarnations of their Oracle database servers, whereas Sun didn’t have a database product or at least not a significant one in the market.

凯文：是的，是的，阅读他的常见问题集，对他来说，主要的不同在于，Oracle在其Oracle数据库中拥有竞争产品，Oracle数据库服务器的各种形式，而Sun没有数据库产品或至少在市场上并不重要。

You said it’s a very technical argument but it’s also the fact that MySQL is an open source product makes a lot of the implications of acquisitions and stuff like that less than obvious because on the surface of it, you say “Okay, MySQL is open source, it’s released under an open source license. If Oracle does acquire it, they can do whatever they want with it but that open source code base will still exist, worst case, up to the day that Oracle acquired it. And if people aren’t happy with what Oracle does with that product, they can take that code base and go their own way with it.”

您说过，这是一个非常技术性的论点，但事实是，MySQL是一种开放源代码产品，对收购和诸如此类的东西产生了很多影响，但并不那么明显，因为从表面上看，您说：“好吧，MySQL是开放源代码。，它是在开源许可证下发布的。如果Oracle确实获得了它，那么他们可以随心所欲地做任何事情，但是在最坏的情况下，直到Oracle收购之日，该开源代码库仍将存在。而且，如果人们对Oracle使用该产品的方式不满意，他们可以采用该代码库，并按自己的方式进行开发。”

The issue is that what Oracle is buying is really the commercial rights because MySQL is a dual-licensed entity. You can get it under an open source license for free but because it’s the GPL license, anything you build with it must also be released for free but if you want to build a commercial product on top of MySQL, you have to license it commercially and that’s the crucial thing that Oracle would be getting control of here. Anyone who has a commercial product built on top of MySQL will be losing control if Oracle takes over and decides to kill that as a commercial product.

问题在于，Oracle购买的实际上是商业权利，因为MySQL是双重许可的实体。您可以免费获得开源许可证下的许可证，但是由于它是GPL许可证，因此您使用它构建的任何内容也必须免费发布，但是如果您想在MySQL之上构建商业产品，则必须对其进行商业许可并这是Oracle在这里获得控制权的关键。如果Oracle接管并决定将其作为商业产品杀死，那么任何拥有基于MySQL的商业产品的人都将失去控制。

Stephan: Here’s one thing that I disagree wholeheartedly with Monty on, and that is, are Oracle and MySQL truly competing products? Anyone who has used Oracle knows that it is not a simple product but MySQL is, and he makes a statement that Oracle hasn’t been able to get into the web area because of MySQL and I think that’s completely false. I think the reason that Oracle hasn’t made the move into the Web is because it’s prohibitively expensive and it takes a lot of technical knowledge to get it running and working the way you want.

史蒂芬：这是我与蒙蒂完全不同意的一件事，那就是Oracle和MySQL真的是竞争产品吗？任何使用过Oracle的人都知道，这不是简单的产品，而MySQL是产品。他声明Oracle由于MySQL无法进入Web领域，我认为那是完全错误的。我认为Oracle之所以没有进入Web的原因是因为它的价格过高，并且需要大量的技术知识才能使其按预期的方式运行和工作。

So are they truly competing? Yeah, they’re competing because they’re both databases but they’re not competing in the way of an apple from one farm stand to an apple to another farm stand; they’re not the same. I think that’s a poor argument for this and I don’t think people should fight against Oracle taking over MySQL just because of that. I think if you’re really a GPL person and you really believe in the open source code, then that’s a good reason to support MySQL and be against this, but to say that Oracle is going to kill it because it compete, I don’t think that that’s a good argument.

那么他们真的在竞争吗？是的，他们之所以竞争是因为它们都是数据库，但是它们的竞争方式并不是一个苹果从一个农场到另一个农场。他们不一样。我认为这是一个糟糕的论点，我不认为人们应该为此而与Oracle接管MySQL进行斗争。我认为，如果您确实是GPL的人，并且您真的相信开放源代码，那么这就是支持MySQL并反对这样做的一个很好的理由，但是要说Oracle将要杀死它，因为它会竞争，我不会认为那是一个很好的论据。

Patrick: Interestingly, he answers the question “Who would be interested in buying MySQL if Oracle made the decision to drop it from the portfolio?” and one of the companies he mentions is IBM…

帕特里克(Patrick)：有趣的是，他回答了一个问题：“如果Oracle决定将MySQL从投资组合中删除，谁会对MySQL产生购买兴趣？” 他提到的公司之一是IBM ...

Kevin: (laugh)

凯文：(笑)

Stephan: (laugh)

斯蒂芬：(笑)

Patrick: …Fujitsu, any of the major Linux distribution vendors. So I mean it’d be interesting, one big company to another, IBM. He says because IBM DB2 and MySQL are working in mostly different markets and our salespersons very seldom compete with DB2; that’s his reasoning for IBM.

帕特里克： …富士通，任何主要的Linux发行商。所以我的意思是，一家大公司对另一家，IBM，会很有趣。他说，因为IBM DB2和MySQL在大多数市场上工作，我们的销售人员很少与DB2竞争。这就是他对IBM的看法。

Kevin: Right.

凯文：对。

Stephan: When Novell bought SUSE, the Linux installation, that kernel I guess, everyone thought it was going to die. I don’t think it’s dead, right? I still see SUSE installations all around so I think we’d still see it and hopefully, they do, Oracle, does dump it from their portfolio, I’d love to see an open source project like Fedora pick it up or something.

斯蒂芬： Novell购买Linux安装SUSE时，我猜是那个内核，每个人都认为它快要死了。我不认为它已经死了，对吗？我仍然到处都能看到SUSE的安装，所以我认为我们仍然会看到它，并希望Oracle确实将它们从他们的产品组合中转储出来，我很乐意看到像Fedora这样的开源项目能够使用它。

Kevin: Our last story today is about Blippy.

凯文：我们今天的最后一个故事是关于Blippy的。

Patrick, what is Blippy?

帕特里克，什么是Blippy？

Patrick: Well, Blippy is – I saw a lot of services launching these days. It’s very similar to another service we all know and love, Twitter, but Blippy is more or less for your purchases. When you buy something in an online store, if it’s hooked up to your Blippy account, it will tell your followers, and I guess there’s a public profile, Blippy is private right now. I don’t have access to it, so I can’t go on anything but screenshots and there’s a blog post at SitePoint about this as well that we’ll link to in the show notes. But more or less, as you purchase something that you opted to share with Blippy, it will automatically update your feed telling your followers how much you spent and in many cases what you bought.

帕特里克：嗯，Blippy是–这些天我看到了很多服务启动。它与我们都知道并喜欢的另一项服务Twitter非常相似，但是Blippy或多或少地适合您购买。当您在网上商店购买商品时，如果将其连接到您的Blippy帐户，它将告诉您的关注者，而且我想这里有一个公开的个人资料，Blippy现在是私人的。我无权使用它，因此除了屏幕截图外，我什么都不能继续进行，SitePoint上有一篇博客文章也对此进行了介绍，我们也将其链接到展示笔记中。但是或多或少，当您购买要与Blippy分享的东西时，它会自动更新您的Feed，告诉您的关注者您花了多少钱，在许多情况下还买了东西。

So if you buy something from Amazon, it’ll tell your followers what you bought and no matter how embarrassing. If you hook it up to your credit card, I guess you can hook it up to your credit card and to your bank and so on and it will tell people you spent X amount of dollars at this online store and then they can comment and kind of talk about your purchases and maybe buy those things as well.

因此，如果您从亚马逊购买商品，它会告诉您的追随者您所购买的商品，无论多么尴尬。如果您将其连接到您的信用卡，我想您可以将其连接到您的信用卡和银行，依此类推，它会告诉人们您在此在线商店上花费了X美元，然后他们可以发表评论并提供帮助谈论您的购买，也许也购买这些东西。

Stephan: That’s it. The internet wins. I’m out. I’m done. (laugh)

史蒂芬：就是这样。互联网获胜。我出去了。我受够了。 (笑)

Kevin: (laugh) What happened?

凯文：(笑)发生了什么事？

Stephan: It’s just I don’t know the point of this. I don’t get it. I kind of get Twitter, but I don’t get this.

史蒂芬：这只是我不知道要点。我不明白我得到了Twitter，但我没有得到。

Kevin: I was listening to the MacBreak Weekly podcast a couple of weeks ago and they were talking about a new bathroom scale that would automatically tweet your weight every time you weighed yourself with it. This has a similar ickyness associated with it for me. It’s sharing something that – I don’t know… maybe I’m old fashioned, but it seems to me that the information about what you buy should be something you share on a case by case basis deliberately and consciously.

凯文：几周前，我在听MacBreak每周播客，他们在谈论一种新的浴室秤，每次称量体重时，它都会自动发送您的体重。对我来说，这也有类似的缺点。它所共享的东西–我不知道…也许我是过时的，但是在我看来，有关购买商品的信息应该是您在个案的基础上有意识地，有意识地共享的东西。

What kind of people… I can imagine a very small niche of people – the—I don’t know—‘commercialist exhibitionists’ out there wanting to use a service like this but could this ever be a mass market service? Could this ever be something that more than a thousand people want to use?

什么样的人……我能想象到一小部分人-我不知道，那里的“商业展览家”想要使用这样的服务，但是这会成为大众市场服务吗？这会成为一千多个人想要使用的东西吗？

Patrick: I’m not sure. I think more than a thousand is a good possibility as far as mainstream service. I don’t think so. I do think that it has some potential though for that niche audience and I’m not sure that it’s a super small audience either, consider what people share online and how they aggregate it already.

帕特里克：我不确定。我认为就主流服务而言，千余种可能性很大。我不这么认为。我确实认为，对于那些小众受众群体来说，它具有一定的潜力，而且我不确定这是一个非常小的受众群体，请考虑人们在网上共享的内容以及他们如何将其共享。

If you hook it up to your online stores, it’s a way of sharing the music you’re buying. It’s if you’re aware of it… I’m sure there are ways you can stop it momentarily and buy something that you don’t want your followers to know about. But I definitely think it’s something that some people will pick up on and will enjoy. And then I think that there is – we know making money is a big thing and if people are already talking about products they’re buying and that’s the basis of the service and then they do achieve some level of scale and some audience, it’s not hard to see how that could then by monetized with the product data and with the affiliate sales and so on and so forth.

如果您将其连接到在线商店，则可以共享所购买的音乐。如果您知道它，那么……我敢肯定，您可以通过多种方式暂时停止它并购买您不希望其追随者知道的东西。但是我绝对认为这是一些人会喜欢的东西。然后，我认为存在–我们知道赚钱是一件大事，如果人们已经在谈论他们要购买的产品，这是服务的基础，那么他们确实达到了一定的规模和一定的受众，那不是很难看到如何通过产品数据和会员销售等来货币化。

So they have some people that are well known, that are behind it or at least pushing it like Jason Calacanis and Philip Kaplan and some others. It will be interesting to see – me, personally, I’m with you; I don’t expect to use this but when I think about aggregation in general and how people share things, is a lot of the content you see in your Twitter stream of followers really that interesting? No, maybe not to you but some people will be interested in purchasing and they’re sort of interesting in this. I don’t know if it’s a curiosity thing or a voyeuristic desire or something like that, but it’s an interesting thing.

因此，他们背后有一些知名的人，或者至少像Jason Calacanis和Philip Kaplan这样的人在推动它。看到我很有趣–我个人与您在一起； I don't expect to use this but when I think about aggregation in general and how people share things, is a lot of the content you see in your Twitter stream of followers really that interesting? No, maybe not to you but some people will be interested in purchasing and they're sort of interesting in this. I don't know if it's a curiosity thing or a voyeuristic desire or something like that, but it's an interesting thing.

One of the concerns I saw on the comments at SitePoint was sharing their bank and credit card information and I think that’s a legitimate concern. But I think of this almost in a way as Mint. It’s kind of like playing with your money. It’s like a game in some level. Mint is obviously useful, I’m a Mint user, and I had apprehension to sharing my bank information and my credit card information but I looked into it and I decided to go ahead and do it, and I’m sure that Blippy is operating under the same security principles. So I don’t think that’s such a big deal but obviously, that’s a road block for them is that trust that people need to have and then to share this purchase information.

One of the concerns I saw on the comments at SitePoint was sharing their bank and credit card information and I think that's a legitimate concern. But I think of this almost in a way as Mint . It's kind of like playing with your money. It's like a game in some level. Mint is obviously useful, I'm a Mint user, and I had apprehension to sharing my bank information and my credit card information but I looked into it and I decided to go ahead and do it, and I'm sure that Blippy is operating under the same security principles. So I don't think that's such a big deal but obviously, that's a road block for them is that trust that people need to have and then to share this purchase information.

Stephan: I don’t know. I think my gut tells me it’s too much focus on consumerism. I don’t know. Me, I’m kind of the guy that you don’t need to buy a bunch of stuff to be happy and going out and watching what other people buy just seems like one of those… you know you like live in an alter universe like, “Oh, that person bought that. That’s so cool.” I don’t know. It just seems strange to me and maybe that’s me being – I’m being…

史蒂芬：我不知道。 I think my gut tells me it's too much focus on consumerism. 我不知道。 Me, I'm kind of the guy that you don't need to buy a bunch of stuff to be happy and going out and watching what other people buy just seems like one of those… you know you like live in an alter universe like, “Oh, that person bought that. That's so cool.” 我不知道。 It just seems strange to me and maybe that's me being – I'm being…

Patrick: It’s definitely not for everyone.

Patrick: It's definitely not for everyone.

Stephan: Yeah, no.

Kevin: I’m kind of with you. I mean what does that say about – I don’t want to take potshots at the developers of this thing, but if you as a developer make a choice, you are the master of some internet technology and the way you decide to contribute to the world by using that skill is to build this thing for people to keep track of what they buy…

Kevin: I'm kind of with you. I mean what does that say about – I don't want to take potshots at the developers of this thing, but if you as a developer make a choice, you are the master of some internet technology and the way you decide to contribute to the world by using that skill is to build this thing for people to keep track of what they buy…

Stephan: No, to keep track of what other people buy.

Kevin: I’m curious what the philosophical argument is. The developers behind this, what drives them to do this?

Kevin: I'm curious what the philosophical argument is. The developers behind this, what drives them to do this?

Patrick: How many times have you heard someone say Twitter is narcissistic?

Kevin: Well the difference between Twitter… like 2009 was the – if for the sake of argument, we accept 2009 as the year of mass marketing things like Facebook statuses and Twitter, those things going mainstream, those things are all about being able to share whatever you want when you want to share something. But these new services, like Blippy that are coming out, are all about what the SitePoint blog post calls passive sharing. These services start to share information without you having to intervene automatically and we’re seeing a lot of sort of location base services doing the same thing. You switch on an app on your phone and from that point forward, it will automatically advertise your location, let people know where you are and what you’re doing without any intervention.

Kevin: Well the difference between Twitter… like 2009 was the – if for the sake of argument, we accept 2009 as the year of mass marketing things like Facebook statuses and Twitter, those things going mainstream, those things are all about being able to share whatever you want when you want to share something. But these new services, like Blippy that are coming out, are all about what the SitePoint blog post calls passive sharing. These services start to share information without you having to intervene automatically and we're seeing a lot of sort of location base services doing the same thing. You switch on an app on your phone and from that point forward, it will automatically advertise your location, let people know where you are and what you're doing without any intervention.

That’s an important differentiation for me – active sharing versus passive sharing.

That's an important differentiation for me – active sharing versus passive sharing.

Stephan: Wasn’t it Beacon, wasn’t it the Beacon Facebook thing that there was a whole controversy because it was sharing things people bought on websites on Facebook?

Stephan: Wasn't it Beacon, wasn't it the Beacon Facebook thing that there was a whole controversy because it was sharing things people bought on websites on Facebook?

Kevin: I can’t keep track of what’s true and what’s urban legend when it comes to Facebook.

Kevin: I can't keep track of what's true and what's urban legend when it comes to Facebook.

Stephan: Well, that was Beacon though. That was a big deal because you had to turn it off.

I can remember that story that some guy bought something and his wife found out about it or something and it was on Facebook. That’s passive sharing. It’s the same thing to me. I don’t know. It just bugs me.

I can remember that story that some guy bought something and his wife found out about it or something and it was on Facebook. That's passive sharing. It's the same thing to me. 我不知道。 It just bugs me.

Patrick: No, I mean the problem with Beacon is that it was this sort of covert thing where obviously, this is an opt-in thing. I mean they’re going to give their information over, they know what to expect. I think Kevin makes a great point; I think that that is a great difference between Twitter and Blippy. Obviously, they’re not the same but I look at it from the same way; people say Twitter is narcissistic. People will say this is blatant consumerism, is all about material possessions, but there will be a segment in the market I think that clues in on this and likes it and will tie it in to Twitter. A part of Twitter already is this passive sharing in automation, sharing the blog post, sharing your bookmarked items, and so on and so forth.

Patrick: No, I mean the problem with Beacon is that it was this sort of covert thing where obviously, this is an opt-in thing. I mean they're going to give their information over, they know what to expect. I think Kevin makes a great point; I think that that is a great difference between Twitter and Blippy. Obviously, they're not the same but I look at it from the same way; people say Twitter is narcissistic. People will say this is blatant consumerism, is all about material possessions, but there will be a segment in the market I think that clues in on this and likes it and will tie it in to Twitter. A part of Twitter already is this passive sharing in automation, sharing the blog post, sharing your bookmarked items, and so on and so forth.

I’m not saying this will succeed but I’m saying I won’t be surprised if it does achieve some level of notoriety.

I'm not saying this will succeed but I'm saying I won't be surprised if it does achieve some level of notoriety.

Kevin: It’s really interesting. We’re moving from a place where it has become okay for people to over-share on the internet. For better or worse, the Internet is a medium for over-sharing from time to time but we’re moving towards the Internet becoming a medium for the world to spy on you. For you to press a button that says it’s okay for people to spy on me if that’s what they want to do and it just goes from there. I’m really curious if the mass market is going to buy into that the way they have bought into the narcissism of over-sharing as they have with Twitter. I’m curious if they’re going to take that next step.

Kevin: It's really interesting. We're moving from a place where it has become okay for people to over-share on the internet. For better or worse, the Internet is a medium for over-sharing from time to time but we're moving towards the Internet becoming a medium for the world to spy on you. For you to press a button that says it's okay for people to spy on me if that's what they want to do and it just goes from there. I'm really curious if the mass market is going to buy into that the way they have bought into the narcissism of over-sharing as they have with Twitter. I'm curious if they're going to take that next step.

Stephan: We’re six months away from me never having to leave the house ever again.

Stephan: We're six months away from me never having to leave the house ever again.

Kevin: What, because you’re living your life vicariously through everyone else?

Kevin: What, because you're living your life vicariously through everyone else?

Stephan: Yeah, through everyone else, yes.

Kevin: Alright. Well, juicy discussion, guys, but all good things must come to an end and that means it’s time for our host spotlights.

凯文：好吧。 Well, juicy discussion, guys, but all good things must come to an end and that means it's time for our host spotlights.

Patrick, what have you got for us?

Patrick: I’m going to spotlight an article at PlagiarismToday.com. It’s the top 10 copyright stories of the 2000s. We’ve seen a lot of these articles obviously with the 00 to 09 decade coming to an end, the top stories of the decade. This one is copyright focused and talks about some of the obviously larger copyright disputes of the decade from the RIAA lawsuits to the Google Book storage stuff and if you’re interested in that sort of topic, copyright and plagiarism, I think it’s a great summary of the important articles of the decade in that area. Check it out.

Patrick: I'm going to spotlight an article at PlagiarismToday.com . It's the top 10 copyright stories of the 2000s. We've seen a lot of these articles obviously with the 00 to 09 decade coming to an end, the top stories of the decade. This one is copyright focused and talks about some of the obviously larger copyright disputes of the decade from the RIAA lawsuits to the Google Book storage stuff and if you're interested in that sort of topic, copyright and plagiarism, I think it's a great summary of the important articles of the decade in that area. 看看这个。

Kevin: That stuff really interests me. I was really interested, again, going back to your interview with Gary Vaynerchuk last episode, and for those who haven’t heard it yet, definitely go check it out. It’s short but meaty, and I loved the insight he had into the book market and how that is changing.

Kevin: That stuff really interests me. I was really interested, again, going back to your interview with Gary Vaynerchuk last episode, and for those who haven't heard it yet, definitely go check it out. It's short but meaty, and I loved the insight he had into the book market and how that is changing.

Stephan?

斯蒂芬？

Stephan: I was given a Magic Mouse for Christmas.

Kevin: Ooh! My Magic Mouse ran out of batteries yesterday, and I miss the flick scrolling so much.

凯文：哦！ My Magic Mouse ran out of batteries yesterday, and I miss the flick scrolling so much.

Stephan: Yeah, it’s a really neat mouse. I love it so far and it’s taking some getting used to the size of it but I really, really do like it and I’ve had some issues with clicking and tapping because you can tap on it.

Stephan: Yeah, it's a really neat mouse. I love it so far and it's taking some getting used to the size of it but I really, really do like it and I've had some issues with clicking and tapping because you can tap on it.

I’ve been searching and there’s an application out there called MagicPrefs and you can download it and it goes into your prefs pane and you can edit a bunch of – you can tweak more settings than what Apple lets you tweak and it’s a really cool tool. If you have a Magic Mouse, download it, it’s worth it. It’s free. It’s awesome.

I've been searching and there's an application out there called MagicPrefs and you can download it and it goes into your prefs pane and you can edit a bunch of – you can tweak more settings than what Apple lets you tweak and it's a really cool tool. If you have a Magic Mouse, download it, it's worth it. 免费。这很棒。

Kevin: So it adds like the extra gestures that you expect. As soon as they say, “Oh, it’s a multi-touch mouse,” you’re thinking you can do pinches and zooms and things like that with it, it adds that stuff.

Kevin: So it adds like the extra gestures that you expect. As soon as they say, “Oh, it's a multi-touch mouse,” you're thinking you can do pinches and zooms and things like that with it, it adds that stuff.

Stephan: Exactly, because the Apple default install stuff doesn’t have that and this has it. It’s got some cool things.

Stephan: Exactly, because the Apple default install stuff doesn't have that and this has it. It's got some cool things.

Kevin: What kind of things are you using your mouse for with it now that you didn’t before?

Kevin: What kind of things are you using your mouse for with it now that you didn't before?

Stephan: I’ve been playing with the tap because as you know during the podcast, you can hear clicky, clicky and I want to get it so that I can have it so I can just tap the right and left click rather than actually clicking it and that way you don’t actually have to hear it during the podcast or it doesn’t have to be edited out and things like that. I’m doing some swipe stuff so I can quickly change applications and Exposé type stuff. It’s useful.

Stephan: I've been playing with the tap because as you know during the podcast, you can hear clicky, clicky and I want to get it so that I can have it so I can just tap the right and left click rather than actually clicking it and that way you don't actually have to hear it during the podcast or it doesn't have to be edited out and things like that. I'm doing some swipe stuff so I can quickly change applications and Exposé type stuff. It's useful.

Kevin: The thing I miss, because my other mouse – it sounds like a bumper sticker – my other mouse is a Logitech with one of these things that’s like festooned with buttons all over it, and one of the things I use those buttons for is on the Mac to trigger Exposé. All of the windows shrink and then I can pick another window very quickly using a button on my mouse.

Kevin: The thing I miss, because my other mouse – it sounds like a bumper sticker – my other mouse is a Logitech with one of these things that's like festooned with buttons all over it, and one of the things I use those buttons for is on the Mac to trigger Exposé. All of the windows shrink and then I can pick another window very quickly using a button on my mouse.

The problem with the Magic Mouse, although its scrolling and tracking is all very nice, it has no extra buttons for anything and so I had to go reach for the keyboard when I was using my mouse to do things like Exposé, and so these gestures I’m really interested in using them for that.

Stephan: You can just tap the Apple logo on your mouse and it will bring up Exposé.

Kevin: There’s an Apple logo on the mouse? Oh, so there is!

Kevin: There's an Apple logo on the mouse? Oh, so there is!

Stephan: You can just like run your finger down there and just tap it once and it will bring up Exposé. It’s really nice.

Stephan: You can just like run your finger down there and just tap it once and it will bring up Exposé. 这太好了。

Kevin: Oh, great. Thank you.

Kevin: Oh, great. 谢谢。

My host spotlight is Instapaper.com and this is a service that’s been around for a little while. It gained popularity last year when they released an iPhone app. If you’re familiar with services like Delicious that are sort of websites that house all of your bookmarks, on the surface, Instapaper seems like one of those, but rather than being designed and specialized and set up with tools for archiving a vast collection of bookmarks, Instapaper is all about keeping track of the things you plan to read later. And so at its core, you set up a bookmarklet in your browser and you call it ‘Read Later’ and so every time you get to a blog post or something that you’re interested in reading but you don’t have time to read it right now, you click Read Later and that sends it to Instapaper. A lot of people use Delicious for this. They’ll setup a tag in Delicious, a tag called ‘readlater’ and that lets them keep a list of things that they plan to read later but they never get around to it because going into Delicious and going through that list of things to read later and clicking through each one is not a fun process. When you have a bit of spare time, that’s not the kind of thing you reach for because it’s not a fun thing to do in your spare time. Instapaper has designed its interface so that going and reading your things that you planned to read later is fun and it’s something you will want to do in your spare time.

My host spotlight is Instapaper.com and this is a service that's been around for a little while. It gained popularity last year when they released an iPhone app. If you're familiar with services like Delicious that are sort of websites that house all of your bookmarks, on the surface, Instapaper seems like one of those, but rather than being designed and specialized and set up with tools for archiving a vast collection of bookmarks, Instapaper is all about keeping track of the things you plan to read later. And so at its core, you set up a bookmarklet in your browser and you call it 'Read Later' and so every time you get to a blog post or something that you're interested in reading but you don't have time to read it right now, you click Read Later and that sends it to Instapaper. A lot of people use Delicious for this. They'll setup a tag in Delicious, a tag called 'readlater' and that lets them keep a list of things that they plan to read later but they never get around to it because going into Delicious and going through that list of things to read later and clicking through each one is not a fun process. When you have a bit of spare time, that's not the kind of thing you reach for because it's not a fun thing to do in your spare time. Instapaper has designed its interface so that going and reading your things that you planned to read later is fun and it's something you will want to do in your spare time.

So the main thing it does is it strips out all the navigation out of the pages. It’s very good at identifying the core piece of content from the page and only importing that into your Instapaper account. If you’ve got an iPhone, you can use the iPhone app to read just that content in a very spartan interface that isn’t marred by ad banners and navigation bars and that sort of stuff. It’s great.

So the main thing it does is it strips out all the navigation out of the pages. It's very good at identifying the core piece of content from the page and only importing that into your Instapaper account. If you've got an iPhone, you can use the iPhone app to read just that content in a very spartan interface that isn't marred by ad banners and navigation bars and that sort of stuff. 这很棒。

Stephan: Have you noticed that you can’t do – if you have a multi-page article, it doesn’t get the extra pages?

Stephan: Have you noticed that you can't do – if you have a multi-page article, it doesn't get the extra pages?

Kevin: That is one of the problems with it. If the article is split over multiple pages, you’re going to have to add each one of those pages to Instapaper but when you get to the end of the first page, you can click the view the actual story online link and if you have an internet connection, it will take you back to the site and you can read the next page. So it’s not perfect, there are niggles.

Kevin: That is one of the problems with it. If the article is split over multiple pages, you're going to have to add each one of those pages to Instapaper but when you get to the end of the first page, you can click the view the actual story online link and if you have an internet connection, it will take you back to the site and you can read the next page. So it's not perfect, there are niggles.

The big feature they added just before the holidays was exporting to Kindle format so you can create a folder of related things that you want to read later. Sort of like a little digest for yourself and I did this with a couple of sites, PHPAdvent.org and 24ways.org, both sites that published an article a day for the first 24 days of December like an advent calendar. PHP Advent obviously about PHP, 24 Ways is stuff more about web design, sort of CSS, JavaScripty tips and tricks. Both of those sites, I have taken all of their articles and put them into Instapaper folders and then I can export those as a Kindle e-book and put it on my Amazon Kindle and I took that with me over the holidays and read those articles offline. It’s a great way to get through that content.

The big feature they added just before the holidays was exporting to Kindle format so you can create a folder of related things that you want to read later. Sort of like a little digest for yourself and I did this with a couple of sites, PHPAdvent.org and 24ways.org , both sites that published an article a day for the first 24 days of December like an advent calendar. PHP Advent obviously about PHP, 24 Ways is stuff more about web design, sort of CSS, JavaScripty tips and tricks. Both of those sites, I have taken all of their articles and put them into Instapaper folders and then I can export those as a Kindle e-book and put it on my Amazon Kindle and I took that with me over the holidays and read those articles offline. It's a great way to get through that content.

So Instapaper.com, PHPAdvent.org, 24ways.org are, together, my pick for this week.

That brings our show to an end. Sign offs, guys?

Patrick: I am Patrick O’Keefe for the iFroggy Network. You can follow me on Twitter @iFroggy.

Patrick: I am Patrick O'Keefe for the iFroggy Network . You can follow me on Twitter @iFroggy .

Stephan: And I’m Stephan Seagraves. You can follow me on Twitter @sseagraves and my blog is badice.com.

Stephan: And I'm Stephan Seagraves. You can follow me on Twitter @sseagraves and my blog is badice.com .

Kevin: Patrick, you need one of those, like, 10th anniversary banners in your signoff, “The iFroggy Network celebrating 10 years of iFroggy.”

Patrick: Sounds good. You can record that for me and we can have it added it in at the end of every episode.

帕特里克：听起来不错。 You can record that for me and we can have it added it in at the end of every episode.

Kevin: You can follow me on Twitter @sentience and SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom. Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on the show and subscribe to receive every show automatically.

Kevin: You can follow me on Twitter @sentience and SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom . Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on the show and subscribe to receive every show automatically.

Help us promote the SitePoint Podcast. We’re trying to get the word out, get a few more listeners this year and the key way to do that is with iTunes reviews. This is your opportunity to win a free SitePoint book of your choice in PDF format. Just leave a review of this podcast in iTunes and then paste a copy of your review as a comment on this episode at sitepoint.com/podcast so we know you’ve done it. Be sure to let us know which country’s iTunes directory the review is posted in so we can find it and in two weeks’ time in our next new show, we’ll pick out winner at random and you’ll get to have your pick of the SitePoint library. Help us get the word out.

Help us promote the SitePoint Podcast. We're trying to get the word out, get a few more listeners this year and the key way to do that is with iTunes reviews. This is your opportunity to win a free SitePoint book of your choice in PDF format. Just leave a review of this podcast in iTunes and then paste a copy of your review as a comment on this episode at sitepoint.com/podcast so we know you've done it. Be sure to let us know which country's iTunes directory the review is posted in so we can find it and in two weeks' time in our next new show, we'll pick out winner at random and you'll get to have your pick of the SitePoint library. Help us get the word out.

The SitePoint podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker, and I’m Kevin Yank. Thanks for listening. Bye-bye.

The SitePoint podcast is produced by Carl Longnecker, and I'm Kevin Yank. 谢谢收听。再见。

Theme music by Mike Mella.

Mike Mella的主题音乐。

Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.

谢谢收听！欢迎使用下面的评论字段让我们知道我们的状况，或者继续讨论。

翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-43-passive-over-sharing/

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